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StyLaZyn 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
 Posted: July 11 2007 at 14:00 |
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Holy crap! I just went over there and checked the place out. Needless to say, this site will remain my favorite for Prog!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:52 |
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You could remove them from the main list and call it "Top 100 Prog Studio Albums" (also remove the proto-prog/prog-related while you're at it  ), and then add another list which contains only live albums. Or maybe make it three lists:1. Top 100 Prog Studio Albums 2. Top 50 Prog Live Albums/DVDs 3. Top 20 Proto-Prog/Prog-Related Albums/DVDs No disrespect intended for live albums, DVDs or proto-prog/prog-related ... but such a division (100/50/20) helps to show the focus of the website.  |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:50 |
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Yes... At least let's keep the list ALBUM-only (at least the one in the front page)... If we can't go back to the older, better system, at least let's try to make this one work better... DVDs should not be considered, nort should EPS or LIVES... the reasoning is this: not only the production values may be weaker (or great in some cases) but the song selection would make it unfair: an album would have a difficult time competeing with a DVD-live performance full of "the best songs" of a band... Anyway, we as proggers now how it is THE ALBUM the main creative output from our artists... I suggest that we take thos out of this flawed-system top-100 list...
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:46 |
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Just in case anybody cares ---
Here are the current 50 highest rated albums (DVDs omitted) over at Gnosis2000.net. They use a weighted mean in their algorithm as well.
1. In The Court Of The Crimson King (King Crimson)
2. Darwin (Banco)
3. Selling England By The Pound (Genesis)
4. Hybris (Anglagard)
5. Per Un Amico (PFM)
6. Larks Tongues In Aspic (King Crimson)
7. Of Ques and Cures (National Health)
8. Rotters Club (Hatfield and the North)
9. Foxtrot (Genesis)
10. Io Sono Nato Libero (Banco)
11. Storia Di Un Minuto (PFM)
12. Close To The Edge (Yes)
13. 1961 Village Vanguard Recordings (John Coltrane)
14. Thick As A Brick (Jethro Tull)
15. In A Glass House (Gentle Giant)
16. Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso (Banco)
17. Pawn Hearts (VDGG)
18. Hatfield And The North (Hatfield And The North)
19. Kind Of Blue (Miles Davis)
20. Hai/Live (Magma)
21. Ys (Il Balletto Di Bronzo)
22. Ceux Du Dehors (Univers Zero)
23. You (Gong)
24. A Love Supreme (John Coltrane)
25. Octopus (Gentle Giant)
26. Great Deceiver Live 1973-1974 (King Crimson)
27. 4 Visions (Eskaton)
28. Red (King Crimson)
29. Nursery Cryme (Genesis)
30. Arbeit Macht Frei (Area)
31. KA (Magma)
32. Epilog (Anglagard)
33. Trologie Theusz Hantaahk (Magma)
34. Rock Bottom (Robert Wyatt)
35. Inner Mounting Flame (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
36. Anabelas (Bubu)
37. Three Friends (Gentle Giant)
38. Bardomens Stigar (Kultivator)
39. Land Of Grey And Pink (Caravan)
40. Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh (Magma)
41. Third (Soft Machine)
42. Godbluff (VDGG)
43. Crac! (Area)
44. Bitches Brew (Miles Davis)
45. Birds Of Fire (Mahavishnu Orchestra)
46. Hot Rats (Frank Zappa)
47. You Can't Do That On Stage Any More Vol 2 (Frank Zappa)
48. Eros (Dun)
49. Lizard (King Crimson)
50. Picchio Dal Pozzo (Picchio Dal Pozzo)
Edited by yargh - July 11 2007 at 13:48 |
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M@X
Forum & Site Admin Group
Co-founder, Admin & Webmaster Joined: January 29 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 4028 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:42 |
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I can remove the EPS/DVD and LIVE from the list in the homepage and in the TOP MENU link that points to the TOP 100 ...
But when use click on all ALBUMS/ALL GENRES , thoses should be listed |
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Prog On !
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Floydian42
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 13 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 846 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:31 |
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I concur. I prefer the way it was. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:29 |
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Are there any singles or EPs?
What do others think about the inclusion of DVDs? Is it right to exclude them? What about live albums?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:14 |
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By the way, and this somebody may agree with: what the hell are SINGLES and EPS and DVDSdoing in the top -100 ALBUM list? PT's "Arriving Somewhere..."
 ...... At least the top 100 should be focused on albums.... If it was DEADWING in the top of the list, I'd be OK... but a video?
Sorry, I said I wouldn't bother. But I do. After all, I devote a lot of time to this website, only to see it changed for the worse.
I
 the admins for every good decision they usually do... This was NOT one, in my view... |
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moreitsythanyou
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: April 23 2006 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 11682 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:14 |
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Originally I was somewhat apethetic about the new algorithm, but I have to say that it serves a good purpose and definately highlights all bands fairly. The significant freefall of certain albums may be shocking now, but soon we'll be used to it. I think that this system really makes us think tiwce about giving an album five stars because of the greater impact it has, the album might not necessarily deserve it.
Another plus: Tull at #1
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 <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 13:08 |
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Well, if we agree (as I think we can) that the old system was a popularity contest, then it showed the more popular prog choices... didn't it?
The question is: WHAT DOES THIS ONE SHOW? So you say this new system shows quality?
Well, none can say I don't do my part of the job writing reviews, but even now they will count less anyway....
I thank the OLD top-100 for helping me get to know a LOT of prog.... Now I think it's time not to bother about that list ever again, as it's been rendered useless...
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A˛ Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:59 |
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Obviously, no album with one rating is in the top 100 |
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explodingjosh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 507 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:57 |
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I think that is actually a very bad idea. That's all the encouragement fanboys need to write a ridiculous 5 star review for an album that doesn't deserve it, or write a 1 or 2 star review on a higher rated album. NO ONE should ever write a review for any other purpose other than to simply give their objective take on the album. You're encouraging reviewers to have a hidden agenda. |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:42 |
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To Zappa: I do not post reviews to Progarchives because I am a writer for another site. I used to rate albums without writing reviews, but they must have been (idiotically) deleted because I cannot find them anywhere. A rating without a review should carry the same weight as a rating with a review, and those submitted by readers should count the same as "collaborators," most of whom display no discernably greater amount of experience with or knowledge of the music than the majority of the random reader reviews.
As for Garten, I'd appreciate some kind of justification for this ridiculously flawed and prejudicial system than an inane line of clapping smilies.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist Joined: March 01 2006 Location: San Foca, Friűl Status: Offline Points: 5851 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:42 |
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How already written from other, the album are much. They would have been lost it lose days to list the all. I am noting that they are all those with 1 rating. For the other I would not know to say. |
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Firepuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 657 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:38 |
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TR!P, statistically speaking there is negligible difference between 331 reviews and 430 reviews. I'm not saying you are wrong but another 100 reviews of TAAB would statistically not change it's rating. In this particular case it deserves to be placed ahead of WYWH. It appears the problem being wrestled with here is how many reviews does it take to be statistically accurate and whether the Top 100 should be statistically accurate anyways. My problem is that the header to the Top 100 on the front page of the website says 'Prog Archives most popular titles'. If the website is promoting the Top 100 as the most popular then yes, absolutely, the number of reviews should count somehow in the rating algorithm. If the site is to maintain the current algorithm without utilizing the number of ratings then perhaps the header should read something like ‘Prog Archives highest rated titles’ – in other words, remove ‘popular’ from the header. And I agree about the DVD’s – this site is suppose to be mainly about the music, videos should not be included in list. |
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Kryten : "'Pub'? Ah yes, A meeting place where humans attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks."
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yargh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:36 |
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"Only review albums with zero or only few reviews - mainly because there isn't much I can add to a Pink Floyd/Yes/Dream Theater album review that hasn't been said already - I won't even bother rating them as their chart position really doesn't bother me that much." A very good idea.
"Be objective as possible - ie not to give a high mark just because I like it."
This makes no sense, since whether or not I like the album is the only basis I have for rating it. Albums have no objective value.
"Not to review albums by bands I don't like - I still don't get why people do that - if a band you do like releases a bad album then give it a low mark by all means, but a low mark to a good album by a band you cannot abide? wtf?
"I don't agree with this one at all. I am a prog fan. If a prog band consistently does work that I think is mediocre or poor, I'm perfectly justified in giving consistently low ratings. If they ever release an album that is good, I'll give it it's due. Plus, negative reviews are more fun to write.
"Research what I am reviewing - it takes a few minutes to search the interweb to find out a little background info on an album."
This is a very good idea, even if only to fact-check the information that you are putting out there. It's not necessary for each review to be a biography, but it is important for readers to be able to rely on information in the reviews.
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:31 |
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Now if you'll excuse me, I just need to "radically (and baselessly) manipulate the group consensus by attaching more weight to my own opinions" 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4079 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:22 |
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I think there should be a minimum number of ratings before an album is allowed into the ranks.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 06 2006 Location: A˛ Michigan Status: Offline Points: 5109 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:20 |
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There is something wrong with the system. If you look at some albums with only one rating, you will see what I mean. Hopefully M@X is on it.
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TR!P
Forum Groupie 
Joined: December 21 2006 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 69 |
Posted: July 11 2007 at 12:14 |
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I was just looking over the Top 100 most popular albums list and i think its silly to see the album Thick as a Brick by Jethro Tull at #1 with a rating of 4.67 and then to see the second album Wish you were Here by Pick Floyd which is rated 4.66 i understand 4.67 is greater then 4.66, sure, however what i dont understand is why with this minimal difference the J.Tull album should go ahead of the Floyd album when: J.Tull has only been rated 331 times when the Floyd album has been rated a much more 430 surely the fact its been rated more yet it still maintains the high marking shows the Floyd album to technicaly be more popular then the J.Tull album this goes for alot of the other albums listed high on the list, i spotted some album with only 90 ratings above some albums that had been rated 300+ times this is the J.Tull Floyd thing im talkin about:
just another small thing i noticed:
the link to the list of top 100 says "TOP 100 Progressive Music Albums" and if you look through the list there are loads of DVD and Videos, the live albums are fine with me being in the list, but i dunno if its so right in having the Video/DVDs in with the actual albums
people can rate these DVD/videos on different levels to when rating on albums, with DVD/video you get a whole new specacle and have to acknolege the visual images and sights you see, this is different to albums where you only rating purely on the sound and feeling you get from it
so i think they should be seperated
Edited by TR!P - July 11 2007 at 12:17 |
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join communism
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What happened to TOP 100???
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yargh wrote:
