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wilmon91 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 10:10
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by wilmon91 wilmon91 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

More prog musicians should diss prog
 
How strange is that. So what is your opinion on prog? If prog is just silly or lame , why do you listen to it?
Maybe music is just a big joke.
 
How can a prog musician have a passion for music while at the same time have no respect for it? Is it some sort of sickness? "I'm doing silly prog music, I can't help it".
 
It reminds me of the sort of commercial entertainment artists who are like clowns and see their own music as a sort of joke that has no meaning whatsoever. A swedish artist comes to mind, Markoolio.
 
So everyone should diss prog. Oh how cool.
 
I'm sorry I don't listen to the artists I like because someone on a website or a doosh magazine reviewer has labeled them "prog". I don't come to this website on a daily basis because its progarchives. I come here because the artists people discuss and review is the kind of music I like......not because its prog...my God, that has nothing to do with it.

BTW....that's the basis for the album Thick As A Brick.......you go ahead and call it what you like. Its Rock, Metal, Pop, Prog......whatever floats your boat.

On this forum Jethro Tull is very popular.....so I guess its Pop Music.......but you would diss that label I suppose.

 
The idea was to show more disrespect to prog, which means bands who are related to that genre. I found the idea strange. I don't think genres are relevant either, but the point is that every musician should stand for their own music.
 
And one should be careful in doing an evaluation of a whole genre , it will likely only produce stereotypical and untrue ideas.


Edited by wilmon91 - November 10 2011 at 10:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:57
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

if you cannot take 5 steps back and see the whole picture + laugh a bit at yourself and find yourself and what you are doing a bit silly, you are in serious trouble.
 
Having self distance is a different thing. But slandering ones own work and others is more of a nervous behaviour showing lack of confidence and a need for praise. Like a child who makes a drawing and calling it ugly just so everyone else can say "no it's fine".
 
Of course self distance and humility are two good personal characteristics. But it doesn't mean that you have to disparage your own work. It's just childish.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:40
Originally posted by wilmon91 wilmon91 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

More prog musicians should diss prog
 
How strange is that. So what is your opinion on prog? If prog is just silly or lame , why do you listen to it?
Maybe music is just a big joke.
 
How can a prog musician have a passion for music while at the same time have no respect for it? Is it some sort of sickness? "I'm doing silly prog music, I can't help it".
 
It reminds me of the sort of commercial entertainment artists who are like clowns and see their own music as a sort of joke that has no meaning whatsoever. A swedish artist comes to mind, Markoolio.
 
So everyone should diss prog. Oh how cool.
 
I'm sorry I don't listen to the artists I like because someone on a website or a doosh magazine reviewer has labeled them "prog". I don't come to this website on a daily basis because its progarchives. I come here because the artists people discuss and review is the kind of music I like......not because its prog...my God, that has nothing to do with it.

BTW....that's the basis for the album Thick As A Brick.......you go ahead and call it what you like. Its Rock, Metal, Pop, Prog......whatever floats your boat.

On this forum Jethro Tull is very popular.....so I guess its Pop Music.......but you would diss that label I suppose.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:26

It is great to have a passion for something. But if you cannot take 5 steps back and see the whole picture + laugh a bit at yourself and find yourself and what you are doing a bit silly, you are in serious trouble. Worst of all; you will alienate people around you. It is my personal belief that when I stop laughing at myself, I am in serious problems. May that time not come because the mental asylums here are not that great. 

Rick Wakeman's hilarious biography and Ian Anderson's statements just gives me greater respect for both persons, prog rock and bands like Yes, Jethro Tull and the other prog rock greats.  

  

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 09:13
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

More prog musicians should diss prog
 
How strange is that. So what is your opinion on prog? If prog is just silly or lame , why do you listen to it?
Maybe music is just a big joke.
 
How can a prog musician have a passion for music while at the same time have no respect for it? Is it some sort of sickness? "I'm doing silly prog music, I can't help it".
 
It reminds me of the sort of commercial entertainment artists who are like clowns and see their own music as a sort of joke that has no meaning whatsoever. A swedish artist comes to mind, Markoolio.
 
So everyone should diss prog. Oh how cool.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 02:39
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

More prog musicians should diss prog
 
Most do, and trip over each other as they try and run away from the genre label.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 02:29
More prog musicians should diss prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 01:53
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I suppose if this were 1972, this might have mattered. To someone. I'm not sure who.
 
Well, you seem to care. Your own review of this album, from your best rock albums list, states, "And it is very sly: according to Ian Anderson, Thick as a Brick was a send-up of progressive rock of the time, holding up a cynical mirror to Tull's pompous rock counterparts (and the band itself)." So, having put that out there for public consumption on your blog, I'm sure you'll agree that it's at least fair game for discussion on a prog forum where we just discuss stuff for fun and to kill time anyway.
 
I'm not sure you've gone through the whole thread (I probably wouldn't have if I joined the party late) but no matter what side of the fence folks are on (i.e. either IA's a jerk for putting down these other bands, or he's just larking about so folks should chill) it's been established that TAAB wasn't a putdown of prog at the time... that's revisionist on IA's part.
 
At any rate, here's an interview with IA from the time (1972, with Circus magazine) in which he discusses the idea behind TAAB. This is him in his own words, at the time, discussing the real intent behind the album (a reaction to critics' reactions to Aqualung, among other things), not how he's rewritten things now, 40 yrs later.
 


Edited by bucka001 - November 10 2011 at 03:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 01:30
Originally posted by Billy Pilgrim Billy Pilgrim wrote:

I don't really care, the guy makes good enough music. Why do we have to care about our musicians personalities or what they say? Shouldn't affect the music in the slightest, not like were all gonna be going to a barbecue with him anytime soon.  
 
I remember when the allegations of Christian Vander being a facist, nazi sympathizer started up, and some fans posting that they were going to get rid of their whole Magma/Vander collections which they'd had for years. These were people posting on a Magma blog who'd been major fans for ages.
 
But to your point... who here has said that they won't listen to IA's music anymore because of this? I haven't seen anyone post that...


Edited by bucka001 - November 10 2011 at 01:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2011 at 00:00
I don't really care, the guy makes good enough music. Why do we have to care about our musicians personalities or what they say? Shouldn't affect the music in the slightest, not like were all gonna be going to a barbecue with him anytime soon.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:44
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:


  However, I remain convinced that he's tweaking us all on purpose.  


Didn't catch his last line in that video...what..."waiting to be sued by those splendid chaps"...he couldn't have made it any more obvious that he was trolling. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:42
Dead like a thread
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 21:17
I suppose if this were 1972, this might have mattered. To someone. I'm not sure who.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 20:58
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

That Wakeman bit reminds me of talking to David Jackson (sax man w/VdGG) and him telling me that, when they were recording Godbluff at Rockfield in '75, Motorhead were in the next studio and he ended up recording a jam with them! So, somewhere there's a tape of Lemmy and the boys jamming with Jaxon on sax. Jaxon also remembered playing darts with Andy Fairweather-Low during some downtime in the Godbluff sessions!

Yeah, when Rick was blowing off the TFTO recording, he sat in on Sabbath's "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" recording!

"Keyboardist Rick Wakeman of the band Yes (who was recording Tales from Topographic Oceans with Yes in the next studio) was brought in as a session player, appearing on "Sabbra Cadabra".[4]"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 20:47
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Peter Banks' interview is remarkable for his recollections of those days (including when he shared a flat with Bob Fripp!  I often thought I heard Fripp's influence in Banks' guitar, or perhaps vice-versa?)
 
Even the musicians themselves used to groan about the over-the-top compositions!  Regarding TFTO, Chris Squire once said "That tended to go on a bit, didn't it?"    
 
The interview with Wakeman is hilarious, where he breaks from recording TFTO to play darts with Black Sabbath in another studio!!  
 
I read that Banks interview a while back, I should re-read it (is that the one where he says that VdGG and Yes shared the bill quite a bit in the old days?). I also have his autobiog and remember it as being a riveting read. He does talk about sharing a flat with Fripp and playing him the Flash album.
 
That Wakeman bit reminds me of talking to David Jackson (sax man w/VdGG) and him telling me that, when they were recording Godbluff at Rockfield in '75, Motorhead were in the next studio and he ended up recording a jam with them! So, somewhere there's a tape of Lemmy and the boys jamming with Jaxon on sax. Jaxon also remembered playing darts with Andy Fairweather-Low during some downtime in the Godbluff sessions!
jc
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 18:33
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

 
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

The history of The Marquee Club, where all of these bands "cut their teeth," is revealing.  Ian's playing a prank on us, trust me!   They were as thick as thieves, and I'm sure they are sharing his laugh at our expense! 
 
A lot of bands knew each other because they'd play fests together and bump into each other at the Blue Boar Motorway on the way home from gigs. But if you ever interview them or read interviews of a lot of them, the times were very insular. Bands saw each other as rivals even though they'd be cordial and maybe even hang out (like at the drinking establishments La Chasse, The Ship (been there), and The Speakeasy). Doesn't mean they all loved each other's music.
 
I do get what you've been saying, that Ian's having a laugh and a bit of fun with it... but you can do that and still actually mean what you say. When he says Yes and ELP could take an idea and noodle it into the ground, I believe he's sincere and isn't a fan of those bands (but he could have a pint with them and yuck it up). So, to me, it's no different to when punks or hip critics have a go at prog. I just wonder if the same people who are saying 'lighten up!' (such as yourself, and fair enough!) would say 'lighten up, it's okay' when it's critics/punks knocking their fave prog bands in the same way. In my mind, they're hypocritical if they don't take the same attitude. If they do say 'its okay when punks do it too,' then they're consistent.

Thanks, good insight!  Sadly, I wasn't in London when all of this was coming together, but I've read many accounts & interviews, and the various band members used to live together, jam together, get high together, chase girls together etc. as do musicians anywhere!  

Peter Banks' interview is remarkable for his recollections of those days (including when he shared a flat with Bob Fripp!  I often thought I heard Fripp's influence in Banks' guitar, or perhaps vice-versa?)


Even the musicians themselves used to groan about the over-the-top compositions!  Regarding TFTO, Chris Squire once said "That tended to go on a bit, didn't it?"    

The interview with Wakeman is hilarious, where he breaks from recording TFTO to play darts with Black Sabbath in another studio!!  

No doubt, the lengthy noodling-bit isn't Ian's cup of tea.  I always admired Tull's compositions for the strength & brevity of the individual songs, knit into a larger work.   However, I remain convinced that he's tweaking us all on purpose.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:38
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I don't know. I guess I still haven't forgiven him the 70-80 euros I paid  for for something sounding like a third rate tribute band. A good tribute band would atleast sound inspired. So seeing him so self-congratulating and pleased with himself ticked me off. But not as much as npjnpj's kind of comments. Of course everyone notices the jokeish way he says it, but not everyone shares your dull sense of humour.
A dull sense of humour is better than no sense of humour at all. And honestly, he's proud of himself. Why should you judge him? Why would he release things he doesn't like? Confused 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:45
I finally got a chance to watch the video.  To me it seemed obvious that IA was joking when he mentioned other bands.  However, from this, and the spoken portions of the Aqualung live album, it appears that Ian is a bit confused about the definitions of prog rock and concept albums, as he appears to frequently confuse the two.
 
In his defense, he often claims to be very old.
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 12:38
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

You obviously believe that Tull back in the day, recorded Aqualung, TAAB as straight up progressive rock.
 
I never thought of Tull as prog rock, even back in the 70's. It's only when I started looking at ProgArchives and Progressiveears that I became aware that many fans lumped them in with prog. I think you're right, though, that no bands thought of themselves as 'prog' back then. They were just making music they liked and hoped that others liked it too. Peter Hammill says that the phrase in the late 60's (and maybe very early 70's) was 'underground' rather than 'progressive' (which came later).
jc
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 12:35
Ian probably took TAAB far more seriously than he admits today
I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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