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Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Posted: January 22 2011 at 17:03
You'd love that album, it's very sophisticated and ambitious, even progressive at times. I recommend it to you (the new one from 2010 is nowhere near that good, IMO).
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Posted: January 22 2011 at 16:48
lucas wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
lucas wrote:
Joanna Newsom is not pop , she is, according to Roy Harper's own words "a pioneer of folk rock music like him".
Yeah, if you want to use the most precise tags and descriptors, then nothing's pop. But even so, Joanna Newsom is folk rock in the same universe where Jethro Tull is atmospheric black metal If we're into precise tagging, I'd say that what Joanna plays is acoustically supported vocal music, with a great emphasis on both composition and melody. Pop, in my book.
I remember a guy at a jazz gig, who told me that he hates pop when I was talking about ELP You are right, generally speaking every artist/band from the Beatles to Cradle of Filth can be regarded as pop. Only jazz and classical music would escape this tagging
Jazz and classical escaped only because they had no MTV and VH1 back in their day
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
Posted: January 22 2011 at 16:38
harmonium.ro wrote:
lucas wrote:
Joanna Newsom is not pop , she is, according to Roy Harper's own words "a pioneer of folk rock music like him".
Yeah, if you want to use the most precise tags and descriptors, then nothing's pop. But even so, Joanna Newsom is folk rock in the same universe where Jethro Tull is atmospheric black metal If we're into precise tagging, I'd say that what Joanna plays is acoustically supported vocal music, with a great emphasis on both composition and melody. Pop, in my book.
I remember a guy at a jazz gig, who told me that he hates pop when I was talking about ELP You are right, generally speaking every artist/band from the Beatles to Cradle of Filth can be regarded as pop. Only jazz and classical music would escape this tagging
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Posted: January 22 2011 at 16:30
akamaisondufromage wrote:
^ There are some folks who think anything that is not prog is pop oh well they haven't heard 'Those f**king c**ts treat us like pricks' by Flock of Pink Indians. Myabe that was innovative?
Many people here think that if it's good, sophisticated, artistic, etc., then it can't be pop.
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Posted: January 22 2011 at 16:28
lucas wrote:
Joanna Newsom is not pop , she is, according to Roy Harper's own words "a pioneer of folk rock music like him".
Yeah, if you want to use the most precise tags and descriptors, then nothing's pop. But even so, Joanna Newsom is folk rock in the same universe where Jethro Tull is atmospheric black metal If we're into precise tagging, I'd say that what Joanna plays is acoustically supported vocal music, with a great emphasis on both composition and melody. Pop, in my book.
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
Posted: January 22 2011 at 16:14
^ There are some folks who think anything that is not prog is pop oh well they haven't heard 'Those f**king c**ts treat us like pricks' by Flock of Pink Indians. Myabe that was innovative?
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Posted: January 22 2011 at 10:44
On a somewhat related note, in the 60s there weren't also so many labels and genre-tags. So a lot of music that might be pop in some sense is today already classified as something else. For example, Brand New Heavies are classified as acid jazz but it seems reasonable to call this track pop:
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:45
harmonium.ro wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
To start yes. But they were clearly more than that, at least in the period I assume you are referring to.
But that is a good point nonetheless. Their base genre was pop.
I'm referring to all their career, and I call all of it pop because no matter how sophisticated, witty etc. it was, it was also highly accessible, melodic, ergo the huge sales, larger than life impact on the masses, etc.
We may have different definitions of pop music.
And as an aside from this conversation...I can't see pop music being that way again. Perhaps its unfair to hold pop groups to the beatles standards, but even still...half of it would be a massive improvment over todays pop.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
Posted: January 21 2011 at 22:26
Slarti, who knows? I have no idea what's going on with pop music these days. My kids are grown up. I'm approaching senescense.
I used to pride myself on listening to the latest. Hey, I bought some Prince in the 80's. I bought grunge in the 90's (whatever, Iive in Seattle). I just don't listen to the radio anymore, nor do I watch MTV. My kids buy a new Tool CD. I, old fart that I am, hang out on the web. Some dude at some web site mentions Mars Volta. Someone on this site mentions Decemberists. I go prowling Amazon and am blown away.
The 80's were the last and final stand of pop/rock music as I know it at least over the public airwaves. It's all retreads and garbage now. Lady Gaga, who I think from what I've read has some redeeming qualities and I might even enjoy, is unknown to me. How would I hear it? Ain't listening to no radio. Ain't watching no MTV. The 80's. My Sharona. Devo. The Cars. Our beloved XTC. f**kin' Kim Wilde The Kids of America, not to mention Marshall Crenshaw. Wall of Voodoo. Missing Persons (Zappa connection there). Hell I don't know, Spandau Ballet and Human League. sh*t, play me some Flock of Seagulls, I don't care. They did.
Pop used to stand for something. I ain't heard it lately, not for a decade, but I'm guessing it now stands for nothing.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
Posted: January 21 2011 at 14:24
Man With Hat wrote:
To start yes. But they were clearly more than that, at least in the period I assume you are referring to.
But that is a good point nonetheless. Their base genre was pop.
I'm referring to all their career, and I call all of it pop because no matter how sophisticated, witty etc. it was, it was also highly accessible, melodic, ergo the huge sales, larger than life impact on the masses, etc.
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
Posted: January 21 2011 at 14:17
To start yes. But they were clearly more than that, at least in the period I assume you are referring to.
But that is a good point nonetheless. Their base genre was pop.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Is Pop Music Innovative Or Good Anymore?
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lucas wrote:
, she is, according to Roy Harper's own words "a pioneer of folk rock music like him".
If we're into precise tagging, I'd say that what Joanna plays is acoustically supported vocal music, with a great emphasis on both composition and melody. Pop, in my book. 
You are right, generally speaking every artist/band from the Beatles to Cradle of Filth can be regarded as pop. Only jazz and classical music would escape this tagging 
