Do the Beatles get too much credit..

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 Logan wrote:

I don't think many would dispute, any more than I would, that The Beatles were hugely influential and had a tremendous impact on music, but in terms of origination of musical ideas and true innovation, I think they're overrated. I don't doubt their importance at all, and I like this statement "It was the concept of creativity for the masses that makes them so important." What I do suspect is that they were being given exposure to a lot of underground music that was more innovative (asnd more musically astute associates such as George Martin helped to elevate the music).  I listen to the Beatles albums, and I can think of many more, that I would think, were more musically creative/ inventive before them. They popularised such ideas, I would say, but I doubt that they were as originative as quite a few claim.

Some claim that Sgt. Peppers was the first Prog album, but I hear others from the same time and earlier that seem like much more progressive rock.  It was an important album to Prog, I won't deny that.  I've seen claims made that tthat The Beatles originated Psychadelic Rock and Raga Rock, which is not true.  Musicians/ composers borrow ideas for music. Music is not born in a vacuum, other than the Hoover Symphony was born in a vacuum cleaner, and they adapt, that's progress, but I think that those who influenced The Beatles are not getting enough credit.

I totally agree.

Moreover, I think until 1966 the Beatles have published only 2-3 minutes pop-songs. They have enriched the pop songs with unreleased arrangements and studio effects, perfecting the format of the pop song verse-chorus (Rubber Soul and Revolver). Sgt Pepper is not a prog album, nor is it a concept album, it's simply an album where the Beatles created an introduction that is then reprised. Then, they have expanded some songs. Sgt Pepper is not even a real rock album, in fact there is very little rock music, there is Indian music, swing music, symphonic pop, melodic pop, music hall, pop mixed with avant-garde and finally even some rock songs. The Beatles have expanded their arrangements so much that they have become popular music musicians of all kinds. The Beatles (the White Album) again mixed songs of all musical genres, then the Beatles returned to rock in 1969 with Let It Be and Abbey Road. But in the meantime, between 1967 and 1969 rock music changed completely (Hendrix, Doors, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Family, King Crimson). 

The 2-3 minute pop song, which remained until the end the distinctly prevalent format of the Beatles, with a few exceptions, had been surpassed by all the real rock bands like the ones I mentioned above. With Abbey Road the Beatles manage to produce real rock in step with the times, as they had done in part with the White Album and with some Sgt Pepper songs. In addition, they build a mini suite on the second side, one of the first in the history of rock. The Beatles' contribution to the prog, in my opinion, as far as the arrangements is concerned is seen in Revolver, Sgt Pepper and Magical Mystery Tour, but as for the dilation of the format of the song, which is much more important, you see in Abbey Road. 

In short, the Beatles were experimenters of new instruments, new arrangements, new sound effects in the studio but on a compositional level they were not innovative, indeed they were retro, they were at the rearguard, in fact they were always attached to the format of the pop song of 2-3 minutes verse-chorus. When they went beyond this format, they wrote absolute masterpieces (A Day in The Life, Abbey Road suite etc) but in general, their greatest value was to make commercial, palatable to all, every new musical cue coming in their era, being able to integrate it into the format of the pop song of 2-3 minutes, which thus led to a level of compositional sophistication and exceptional arrangement. 

There are two types of great artists: those that bring a genre to perfection, and those that create a new genre, transversal, out of all rules, personal. The latter are the really innovative artists. The Beatles belong to the first category, but sometimes they have churned out in the second category, with few examples but extraordinary.

Poll Question: See opening post for question.
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Yes	54	[31.40%]
No	115	[66.86%]
No opinion.	3	[1.74%]
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