What's wrong with ELP? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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halabalushindigus View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 11:09

What's wrong with ELP? They are out there

assume the power 1586/14.3

presdoug

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 10:57

A Person wrote:

presdoug wrote:

micky wrote:

no no no.... it is not 'what is wrong with ELP'... it should be... 'what is wrong with those who can not get into ELP'

precisely-well said

I'm just not into the music they made, I "get" it, I just don't find it enjoyable, there is nothing wrong with ELP(except some lyrics Dead

) or me.

I see the point you are trying to make-regarding this-i take back what i have said-have yourself a good day!

M27Barney

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 10:34

Karn Evil 9 - First Impression only - an absolute STONKER of a track.

Er bits of Pictures at an Exhibition - The synth solo in The Old Castle, one of the best bits of moog EVER.

Tarkus track isn't too bad - but needed more Moog/shredding to be classed as a true classic.

Not too sure about any of the other stuff they produced - it's so easily forgotten

Padraic

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 10:08

I must be in a minority of people who don't feel passionately about ELP, either positively or negatively.

Blacksword View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 08:43

For me personally, I dont rate ELP very highly for the following simple reasons:

Lack of guitar, inadequately compensated for by the other instruments.

Keyboards limited mainly to Hammond and Piano, and some occassional Moog, leading to a predictable, limited and formulaic approach to writing songs.

They massacre classical music in a way which should be punishable in law!

Albums inconsistent in quality. One or two good songs, and a lot of guff.

Yes, they are one of the great prog bands in terms of their influence, they're stature, and musicianship, but for my personal taste they just dont cut it. I thought their most consistent album was the debut. Depsite my feelings for what they did afterwards, the debut actually ranks as one of my favourite debut albums of all time. How they went from writing those songs to writing 'The only way' 'Benny the bouncer' and all that other bilge, I'll never know. It also puzzles me why the producer on Tarkus didn't stop the tape and insist Greg Lake sung in tune on 'The only way' He sounds like a drunk who's staggered into a midnight mass on Christmas Eve, and started wailing about the non existence of God.

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!

Certif1ed

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 08:22

^I thought it was Peanuts?

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 08:16

ELP = Elephants Love Penis.

or something like that

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 08:14

ExittheLemming wrote:

Conclusion: ELP are deemed to embody all the negative aspects of prog (pompous, long winded, pretentious, decadent, self-indulgent, ostentatious show-offs etc)

That'll be what's wrong with ELP then...

ExittheLemming wrote:

and given that the biggest targets are the easiest ones, it takes the heat off most of their contemporaries whose crimes in this area dwarf that of ELP)

You mean Yes and Rick Wakeman, presumably...

ExittheLemming wrote:

It must be only a matter of time before some half-wit intellectual starts a thread poll (with venn diagrams and pie charts of course) that posits 'Were ELP Really Progressive Rock ?

If they did, I would be forced to defend ELP to the bitter end... please, do NOT start a thread like this if only for that reason, as I would hate myself...

Raff wrote:

I've never understood why people put down ELP for being pretentious, bombastic, self-indulgent, yadda yadda, and then wax lyrical about Dream Theater.

Not guilty - I put both down.

Raff wrote:

However, nowadays it's fashionable to say ELP were bad, that other bands were much more influential (which ones), that they destroyed prog, and I don't know what else. I say, enough already! What about trying to be objective for once, and listen to the damned music with an open mind?

I tried - but unfortunately could only come to the conclusion that, on the whole, they were pretty bad.

They had their moments though - and there's no doubt that they were/are a highly influential Prog band.

Like ETL said - they're an easy target, but mostly, I think, it's because most of the negative criticism is just as true as the praise from the fans, and they frankly deserve what they get from BOTH.

I don't like them, but they're one of the greats, alright.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

boo boo

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 07:52

chopper wrote:

richardh wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

Progologue wrote:

The debut is very good, Tarkus is similarly good, Trilogy fairly good. But I think they became pretty cheesy after that.

All opinions are welcome and respected, but let me tell you: you're the first person I've known about to call Brain Salad Surgery 'Cheesy' !!!

"Man of stone born alone ties a rope around a tree and hangs the universe" "Ever day a little sadder a little madder somebody get me a letter" "LOAD YOUR YOUR PROGRAM I AM YOURSELF" If you like the music, fine (I don't anymore), but those lyrics are just dreadful.

Someone get me a ladder (not a'' letter''). This was partly an injoke as they did a tour entitled something like 'Take A Ladder' prior to recording BSS.

You quote other lyrics from KE9 that were co written with Pete Sinfield. Lake admittedly was very poor at writing sci -fi lyrics as it was an area in which he had little interest.

I am slightly annoyed that people are suggesting that Greg Lake couldn't write decent lyrics. The whole Trilogy album stands up very well lyrically. He was good at painting interesting images and could structure the lyrics well. Of course he was no Roger Waters or Tony Banks but he was far away from being a bad lyricist.Check out From The Beginning at least. Beautifull song. Also Lucky Man which he wrote as a teenager.Good stuff imo.

Lucky Man? Why was he lucky? - he got shot!

Main Entry: iro·ny

Pronunciation: \ˈī-rə-nē also ˈī(-ə)r-nē\

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural iro·nies

Etymology: Latin ironia, from Greek eirōnia, from eirōn dissembler

Date: 1502

1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning —called also Socratic irony
2 a : the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning b : a usually humorous or sardonic literary style or form characterized by irony c : an ironic expression or utterance
3 a (1) : incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result (2) : an event or result marked by such incongruity b : incongruity between a situation developed in a drama and the accompanying words or actions that is understood by the audience but not by the characters in the play —called also dramatic irony, tragic irony

synonyms see wit

boo boo

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 07:48

Negoba wrote:

Not enough guitar.

It's prog ROCK.

I hope this was meant to be satirical.

Prog is a genre of rock music but it's one that is defined by not having to follow rock rules. That includes the kind of instruments being used.

I don't even define rock music by it's use of the electric guitar, but by it's structure. Who says rock music can't be driven by keyboards? Ever heard of Fats Domino, Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard? Or Elton John and Billy Joel?

ELP made some pretty intense songs that certainly qualify as "rock", guitar or no guitar.

chopper

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 05:04

richardh wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

Progologue wrote:

The debut is very good, Tarkus is similarly good, Trilogy fairly good. But I think they became pretty cheesy after that.

All opinions are welcome and respected, but let me tell you: you're the first person I've known about to call Brain Salad Surgery 'Cheesy' !!!

Someone get me a ladder (not a'' letter''). This was partly an injoke as they did a tour entitled something like 'Take A Ladder' prior to recording BSS.

You quote other lyrics from KE9 that were co written with Pete Sinfield. Lake admittedly was very poor at writing sci -fi lyrics as it was an area in which he had little interest.

Lucky Man? Why was he lucky? - he got shot!

Progologue View Drop Down

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 03:47

Kazza3 wrote:

I've only got BSS and Tarkus, and I only really love Karn Evil 9. The rest of BSS is trivial, but generally not bad (except Benny the Bouncer). Tarkus (the song) is quite good, but the rest of the album is just little bits of meaningless rubbish, really. Why did they feel the need to do this? It's discouraged me from buying any more ELP.

Bitches crystal and The only way are the best songs on the album

m2thek

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Posted: March 15 2010 at 00:03

I have never wanted to lisen to any of their classic 4 all the way through; they're very inconsistent.

Tarkus is my favorite epic though.

SaltyJon

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 23:34

I'm with Matt that there's nothing wrong with them or with the people who don't like their music. I only really enjoy their debut lately, but I don't have a problem with other people liking/loving/hating/ignoring them.

A Person

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 23:19

presdoug wrote:

micky wrote:

no no no.... it is not 'what is wrong with ELP'... it should be... 'what is wrong with those who can not get into ELP'

precisely-well said

I'm just not into the music they made, I "get" it, I just don't find it enjoyable, there is nothing wrong with ELP(except some lyrics Dead

) or me.

Edited by A Person - March 14 2010 at 23:40

Henry Plainview View Drop Down

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 23:12

richardh wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

Gerinski wrote:

Progologue wrote:

The debut is very good, Tarkus is similarly good, Trilogy fairly good. But I think they became pretty cheesy after that.

All opinions are welcome and respected, but let me tell you: you're the first person I've known about to call Brain Salad Surgery 'Cheesy' !!!

Someone get me a ladder (not a'' letter''). This was partly an injoke as they did a tour entitled something like 'Take A Ladder' prior to recording BSS.

You quote other lyrics from KE9 that were co written with Pete Sinfield. Lake admittedly was very poor at writing sci -fi lyrics as it was an area in which he had little interest.

Psh, typo! The question is not whether or not Greg Lake could write good lyrics, it's whether or not the BSS lyrics are cheesy. And they are.

if you own a sodastream i hate you

presdoug

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 16:30

micky wrote:

no no no.... it is not 'what is wrong with ELP'... it should be... 'what is wrong with those who can not get into ELP'

precisely-well said

himtroy

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 13:04

I place Pictures at An Exhibition, Self Titled, and Tarkus (Song not album) pretty high up, the rest I don't really care for except a song or two off of Trilogy.

And if we're going to bring up Egg....Egg at their worst is better than ELP at their best. Except Egg was far too consistent to have a worst.

Edited by himtroy - March 14 2010 at 13:06

Syzygy

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 08:02

I feel pretty much the same about those two albums - the debut and Trilogy are also worth getting; there's nothing on either as outstanding as the 2 great epics, but overall they're more consistent.

There are bits of ELP that I love to distraction, but there's also a lot that I find pretty much unlistenable. It's interesting to compare them with Egg, another keyboard led trio with strong classical influences but with a much more understated approach (and much lower sales).

'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom

rogerthat

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Posted: March 14 2010 at 07:42

Well, I would take my favourite KC/Gentle Giant/Genesis/Yes/JT albums over my favourite ELP album Tarkus, but I don't really understand the usual complaints against them, and especially the one about lack of rock. Even though Gentle Giant have a lot of guitar in their music, it's still far away from rock. So is Red Queen To Gryphon Three, lot of VDGG as well. I agree with those who said that the complaints of pompousness levelled against them are precisely what make prog enjoyable and ELP is a very, very enjoyable prog rock band. Clap