Do you support universal healthcare?

Hey, look, we can't let the facts get in the way of political philosophy now can we?

Edited by Slartibartfast - September 23 2010 at 23:04

Lozlan wrote: thellama73 wrote: Lozlan wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: I demand death panels and I want to be one of the ones who decides who lives and who dies.  Awesome.  As for the whole taxes=stealing thing...yeah, we've got a bit of a weird thing going on over here.  A goodly portion of the population seems to believe that the government is a huge, brooding, interfering beast full of nasty progressives that want to control their lives.  I'm not entirely certain what they mean when they claim this...although I had a family member tell me not a week ago that the government caused this latest recession in order to get more people on unemployment.  Now that they are on unemployment, they are beholden to the government.  Or something.  At any rate, my neo-con relatives seem to think that receiving government assistance will transform the lower class into a mob of zombies with a taste for upper-class flesh.  And then the government will.......well, I'm not entirely sure.  Even the conservatives seem a little vague on this point. Truth is, I would be more than happy for 60% of my income to be taken in taxes in order to fund universal health care, free college, etc.  This freakish predilection that neo-cons have for hoarding their wealth and measuring any cent they can pinch from the government is, in my humble opinion, kooky, paranoid, and sickly amusing.  Really, all you folk from outside the US...feel very, very lucky that you don't have to put up with hordes of Tea Party enthusiasts and Fox News pundits. Then why don't you donate 60% of your income to medical charities? Okay....really?  Really?  All right.  Three very good/excellent reasons. 1.  I do not trust charities in the slightest.  One of the sad side-effects of living in a society where there is no universal health care is the resultant explosion of 'charitable' organizations.  Never mind the fact that many charities are wedded to a moral stance, squander their money in highly suspect ways, and ultimately stick band-aids on circumstances where a full-blown metaphoric operation is required.  There are very few charities I would dare to trust with my money. 2.  Obviously what I was stating was that, were I to live in a society wherein paying 60% of my income in taxes was normative, I would gladly do it in order to assure the same basic services to every member of the population.  Including me.  However, since I do not live in such a society, your suggestion is meaningless.  I am calculating my own availing of those services into my willingness to pay higher taxes.  3.  I actually have no income, since I was recently fired in lieu of the salaried manager who actually made the mistake.  I applied for unemployment, but my claim was denied since I was fired.  Apparently the government wants to enslave us via unemployment, but not quite enough to disbelieve an employer's fraudulent claims.  Believe me, at this juncture I really would feel more comfortable if more aspects of my society were socialized.  You may use this admission to accuse me of supporting these positions solely based on my own sorry state if you really want to.

I find it strange that you don't trust charities with your money, but you do trust government. Government doesn't squander money in highly suspect ways? Government doesn't opt for quick fixes when something more comprehensive is required? If you had removed the word "charities" from your post, I would have thought you were talking about government.

I was going to say that it's pretty easy to be taxed 60% of $0, but your last sentence spoiled my fun. 

Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: Conor Fynes wrote: Yes. An unhealthy citizen ultimately costs more than initial medical care. Having a heart attack and dying is pretty cheap, I hear. This is why we need death panels.

Can we privatize death panels?

I really don't know.

Who knows how well it would work if the US tried anything close to universal health care? It would probably suck. I don't feel right looking for handouts from people, but at the same time I know that I can not afford any kind of insurance if I had to buy it or do without. I suppose I'm covered under my parent's plan now, but I'm not really comfortable with that, even though it's the best option currently.

I'm frustrated at a lot of things really. I've switched majors a lot, and switched universities a few times too trying to find what I want to do. God bless the mathematically talented and the engineers who had their hearts set on a high paying careers that are in demand. And yeah you can take the hard-nosed approach if you want and say I could always go for the high paying job like that. But I have no love of economics or math. Nothing I get pleasure out of will lead me to a highly lucrative career. Unless I eventually get a master's or something. Anyway, the roundabout point is that for the sin of being indecisive, or just not knowing who or what I am or envision myself as being, I'm decently in debt. Not jobless art student at a private college for 4 years level of debt, but still. Even with scholarships, i can't help but be in debt. It wouldn't be so much of a deal if I was close to getting a degree (oh I wish) and if that degree was in a high-paying field. But not so much. No one owes me a high-paying job, but I don't see how the oppressive cost of education is a workable thing.

No one can say it's easy to put yourself through college and not end up with the sh*t end of the stick at the end of the 4 5 years. Not that it should be easy, but you can only work so much, and have to pay for college and rent and food until you wonder whether the whole thing is geared to screw you for a decade to come.

...

Given that sh*t, that a ton of people have to deal with, it would be awfully nice for the many people who may not be fortunate enough to be under their parent's insurance plan--to at least have some assurance that they'd not be completely f**ked financially if they fell seriously ill or had to have surgery. Would be nice.

Epignosis wrote: Conor Fynes wrote: Yes. An unhealthy citizen ultimately costs more than initial medical care. Having a heart attack and dying is pretty cheap, I hear.

This is why we need death panels.

Negoba wrote: Totally pulling this out of my backcrack, what is the correlation between use of cars and obesity? Even in the U.S. in high population density areas where one is forced to walk because cars are inpractical, is the obesity rate lower?   At least the one time I was in Europe, use of cars would have been impractical in many areas as well. Once walking or biking is your norm, that's alot of burnt calories.     Google says: well duh...what a kewl thang this internets is.

I don't own a car. I am not obese. That's good enough evidence for me.

Lozlan wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: I demand death panels and I want to be one of the ones who decides who lives and who dies.  Awesome.  As for the whole taxes=stealing thing...yeah, we've got a bit of a weird thing going on over here.  A goodly portion of the population seems to believe that the government is a huge, brooding, interfering beast full of nasty progressives that want to control their lives.  I'm not entirely certain what they mean when they claim this...although I had a family member tell me not a week ago that the government caused this latest recession in order to get more people on unemployment.  Now that they are on unemployment, they are beholden to the government.  Or something.  At any rate, my neo-con relatives seem to think that receiving government assistance will transform the lower class into a mob of zombies with a taste for upper-class flesh.  And then the government will.......well, I'm not entirely sure.  Even the conservatives seem a little vague on this point. Truth is, I would be more than happy for 60% of my income to be taken in taxes in order to fund universal health care, free college, etc.  This freakish predilection that neo-cons have for hoarding their wealth and measuring any cent they can pinch from the government is, in my humble opinion, kooky, paranoid, and sickly amusing.  Really, all you folk from outside the US...feel very, very lucky that you don't have to put up with hordes of Tea Party enthusiasts and Fox News pundits.

Then why don't you donate 60% of your income to medical charities?

Yeah I do

Open to other ideas but it is an idea I support very much.

Slartibartfast wrote: I demand death panels and I want to be one of the ones who decides who lives and who dies.

Edited by Negoba - September 23 2010 at 15:25