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Dean 
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Joined: May 13 2007
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 Posted: October 02 2007 at 17:20 |
You could even go as far as to say that the whole of Progressive Rock is itself a sub-genre of Art Rock.
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What?
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 17:18 |
Wait. We aren't in the '70's? When am I anyway? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 17:08 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
Progressive and prog have always been interchangeable for me. Art Rock as well.
I see you still haven't crossed over to Crossover Specialist.  |
I haven’t read all this thread, but I believe it should be obvious for everybody in this moment, we have answered this question thousands of times:
- progressive: (with lower case): Is simple adjective that describes the approach of a determined band or album to the music they play. If a Pop band is far more advanced than their peers, it could be said we are talking about a progressive band.
The characteristic of being progressive is only one of the possible attributes of Progressive Rock bands, but of course neither a Prog band has to be progressive neither all progressive bands are Prog.
Here is a short list of albums that may be considered progressive because they were far ahead of their peers:
· Out of Time by REM
· Joshua’s Tree by U2
· Bat Out of Hell by Meatloaf
· Climbing! By Mountain
· Hotel California by The Eagles
As you see, all are progressive albums,. but none is part of the Progressive Rock Genre
- Prog: Is an abbreviation of Progressive Rock, a genre that was born in the late 60’s and is still alive today with it’s own characteristics and frames that would be tiresome to talk about, when you can find it at our main page.
Here’s a short list of Prog albums that are not progressive because they didn’t invented anything new or were more advanced than the pioneers:
· Revolutions by Magenta: Recreation of the 70’s Symphonic admitted by the author.
· Hybris by Anglagard: Radicalization of the 70’s sound
· In Haze of Time by Trespass: Clear 70’s influenced album
· Starcastle: Not even original, Yes clones, but still Prog band
· Abarax: Should pay royalties to Pink Floyd (listen the sample “The Crying of the Whales” in PA) but still Prog.
As you see, wee added in first place, 5 progressive bands that are not Prog and five PROGRESSIVE ROCK (Prog) bands that are not progressive,. So there’s almost no relation between both terms, of course some Prog bands are progressive because they are doing something radically new even for an adventurous genre.
About the term Art Rock, I could understand this confusion if we were in the 70’s, but today almost everybody is aware that this term has mutated, first to represent the simplñest bands (what we call Prog related( and then to group bands that have little in common but are 100% Prog.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - October 02 2007 at 17:08
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 16:51 |
I think we were finally starting to get somewhere. Where it is, I don't want to know...
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 02 2007 at 19:20
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 16:13 |
I am guilty of using the terms progressive and prog rather loosely to mean the same thing.
When it comes to modern bands, I tend to consider bands whose sound is heavily "influenced" by the major prog bands of the 70's to mean progressive since to me that is the similar style of music. The irony of course being that these bands may be the least progressive since they may be less original in their sound due to their reliance on the sound from the 70's.
What this means to me is that I might not consider a band to be progressive even though that band might have a more original sound because they are creating new limits and new boundaries where music has never gone before. For the most part, my range of what is progressive doesn't reach to the same extremes as some of the bands labeled as progressive on PA reach.
Not being a musician, I don't get the same thrill out of the various nuances that musicians get. And to illustrate my lack of intelligence in these matters, the fact that a typical thrash metal bands plays using a 13/13 time signature (or would that be 2/2, I'm not sure how that works to speed up from 4/4), when a thrash metal band comes along and plays at 13/8 (or would that be 3/1) I have no idea; it is still thrash to me. I will conceed that it might be progressive thrash, but it is still more thrash than it is prog.
(On the other hand, 90125 and Invisible Touch are the most proggiest albums ever). Just kidding, but I know that I am in the minority here in that I actually like these albums.
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vingaton
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: Canada
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Points: 31
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 15:52 |
Music can be deemed progressive in nature if it pushes the cultural envelope, if it brings together elements often absent in most modern pop music. Progressive music sets new compositional styles in motion and pushes the boundaries of sound forward. However, music deemed to be Prog with a capital “P” has to be generally accepted as such by its advocates within their constructed category. If the Prog community has adopted a musical group its fans guard its position closely.
Rock Bands from outside this accepted, but arbitrary, paradigm will not easily proceed past the gatekeepers of the notion of what is and is not Prog. Once welcomed within the Prog community, the group’s acceptance is rapid, and permanent. The controversial inclusions (at the time) of Santana and Deep Purple come to mind, but forward-looking bands like Santana, or innovators of style like DP, may eventually become recognized. Up to that point however they are merely been considered to be standard rock bands. Bands that continue to advance the state of music today deserve the same opportunity at transcendence from the mainstream to acceptance within the elite that is Prog.
So, it is possible from time to time that progressive music will be deemed to have to progressed to the point of being Prog. New music and new bands are not different from the so-called original innovators of Prog. I would recommend that strict tuff-protecting Prog advocates adopt a pioneering spirit similar to the early masters like King Crimson and Yes. Reject stiffness. Become more open-minded as listeners and be honest, and even generous, within their discussions of what is, and is not, Prog. This approach not only guarantees fresh meat for the ears, but it will assure a future rise in Prog’s profile. Is that not what progress is? Isn’t that how things improve? Progressiveness and evolution are almost synonymous are they not?
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I want to see beyond that tree
And defy the force of gravity
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 15:11 |
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no no no you`ve got it all wrong progressive rock is more progressive than progressive rock . But sometimes progressive rock can be more progressive. Sometimes. But only when it`s more progressive.
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rushfan4
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Joined: May 22 2007
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:19 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
I think that progressive rock is more progressive than progressive rock .
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Now I think the question is, is progressive rock more prog than progressive rock? 
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Points: 29630
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:17 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
I think that progressive rock is more progressive than progressive rock.
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Ah, thanks much for the clarification.
Confused at last, confused at last, thank god almighty I'm confused at last.
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 02 2007 at 14:18
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
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Points: 6898
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:08 |
I think that progressive rock is more progressive than progressive rock .
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 12:55 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
I`ve just read down the thread lots of different interpretations. I`ve become exhausted trying to define progressive rock, progressive rock etc. I think that if you enjoy the music it doesn`t really matter what genre, style or whatever it is. Progressive music seems to aquire a new sub-genre or addition at the rate a new species of animal or insect is discovered or becomes extinct.. |
And how exactly would you differentiate progressive rock from progressive rock?  
Edited by Slartibartfast - October 02 2007 at 12:55
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 6898
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 11:50 |
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I`ve just read down the thread lots of different interpretations. I`ve become exhausted trying to define progressive rock, progressive rock etc. I think that if you enjoy the music it doesn`t really matter what genre, style or whatever it is. Progressive music seems to aquire a new sub-genre or addition at the rate a new species of animal or insect is discovered or becomes extinct..
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Time Signature
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Joined: July 20 2007
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Points: 362
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 10:26 |
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There's no difference to me. I just use 'prog' as a clipping of 'progressive music'.
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Slartibartfast
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Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 07:18 |
BePinkTheater wrote:
I hate this argument!
It is the same thing. Both of them are the name of a genre, the genre that we are here to discuss on this message board. Progressive happens to be a word, like many genre names, but does not exclusively describe the genre it represents.
Progressive music does not have to do anything 'progressive' to be part of the progressive genre. Rock music does not have anything at all to do with large clumps of minerals, pop music has nothing to do with soda water, all emotional music is not emo, and metal music can not hold up a building, nor cut vegetables.
Seriously guys. It is just a name!
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And have you ever been hit in the head by a soft rock?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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BePinkTheater
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2005
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Points: 1381
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 06:35 |
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I hate this argument!
It is the same thing. Both of them are the name of a genre, the genre that we are here to discuss on this message board. Progressive happens to be a word, like many genre names, but does not exclusively describe the genre it represents.
Progressive music does not have to do anything 'progressive' to be part of the progressive genre. Rock music does not have anything at all to do with large clumps of minerals, pop music has nothing to do with soda water, all emotional music is not emo, and metal music can not hold up a building, nor cut vegetables.
Seriously guys. It is just a name!
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I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t.
-Stone Beard
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 06:34 |
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'Progressive' is mainly about creating original auditory experiences (as vague as that may sound).
Prog is mainly about taking from those who are progressive.
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 06:11 |
Atavachron wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
There's far too much arguing about
1. whether or not a band is prog and
2. what kind of prog they are.
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but isn't that, like, half the fun? 
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As long as you remember I'm right and everyone else is wrong! |
of course.. I forgot, thank you
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Unless they agree with me. Then they're right, of course! 
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65306
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 05:44 |
A B Negative wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
There's far too much arguing about
1. whether or not a band is prog and
2. what kind of prog they are.
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but isn't that, like, half the fun?
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As long as you remember I'm right and everyone else is wrong! |
of course.. I forgot, thank you
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A B Negative
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 05:42 |
Atavachron wrote:
A B Negative wrote:
There's far too much arguing about
1. whether or not a band is prog and
2. what kind of prog they are.
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but isn't that, like, half the fun?
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As long as you remember I'm right and everyone else is wrong!
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Posted: October 02 2007 at 05:41 |
puma wrote:
There's no difference, prog is just short for progressive. Both words are used FAR too often to talk about the bands on this site (being called prog archives, that's expected). It's a shame, though, that we pigeonhole all these bands that are vibrantly different from each other as "progressive". To me it seems like a tool used by teenagers who only know genres, and who want to be able to judge each other on what music they listen to.We have to realize that progressive rock isn't a genre, it's a movement. It WAS a movement, now it's a revivalist movement. There was never a genre called "prog", contrary to every music snob college student's belief.Why do I say this? Why does the word "prog" bother me so much? A few reasons. Firstly, people who use it don't really care what they're talking about. All this talk about people wanting to write prog songs and go to prog shows and laugh at prog clothing, it shows a superficial understanding of the music and that's not at ALL what we have this website for.The bigger reason, though, is the bands themselves tell themselves, "let's become a prog band" and instead of being a band that is truly progressive and pushing music's boundaries, they pick and choose a band from the 1970s and blatantly rip them off. I'm looking at you, Galahad, Dream Theater, and basically every band in Progressive Metal who sounds like each other.It's a destructive word to use habitually, I don't use it at all. |
frankly I disagree... language is important in order to communicate information and terms like 'prog' are used out of necessity and convenience. People who use the term "don't really care what they're talking about" ? You sure about that?
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Progressive vs Prog
