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Cataloguing My Prog Collection

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 07:51
^^ The common denominator is Alan Parsons, isn't it? Just like with Devin Townsend and his band/project, and Neal Morse and others. For all my purposes around my collection, I do not need to keep these separated. Your milage may vary Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 07:19
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I'm not so sure that's true about RYM. It seems to be filing under P for Alan Parsons Project, Alan Parsons, and Jaco Pastorius on this page: https://rateyourmusic.com/collection/progaardvark/57

Yeah I was completely wrong about RYM, lol. I might've been confused with Discogs, which do use the first name. It's probably really dependent on what you tend to use for music, as for me, sorting by first name is the norm (outside of RYM obv.).
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I'm not sure what software you are referring to that sorts by first name. Without knowing this, I can only guess that the data has been entered as first name followed by last name. Would it not sort it by surname if you entered it surname, first name? If that's the case, than it's not necessarily a software issue, but a data entry issue. I'm not saying you cannot do that. It is your database and you are welcome to enter it any way you want to. But in shared databases, some sort of standard filing rules should be in place or the database becomes an inconsistent mess. Another issue to consider is initial articles. File The Flower Kings under T or F?


I wouldn't say I have a "database". If you rip a CD, or buy something on iTunes or Bandcamp, it just puts the artist name in as the artist name. AFAIK, there's no first name/surname split in the ID3 tag system, so unless you have your own database/system (like RYM has), your files just have George Harrison under G. Unless you list the artist name as "Harrison, George", but that would be a bit odd IMO as it's both the listed and sort name.

In programs like iTunes you can sort things anyway you'd like regardless of the displayed artist name, so you can, say, sort George Harrison under Harrison. That way the name will still show up as George Harrison, but he'll be under H. Which has its advantages, because you can e.g. take all albums credited under The Mothers Of Invention, The Mothers, Zappa/Mothers etc. and all put it chronologically under F or Z while still having the original credited artist displayed (which I haven't bothered with - I just have every Mothers album credited under Frank Zappa). Individual websites and such might have different sorting systems, but AFAIK, you're limited to this system when it comes your own music files.

Artists that start with "The" should just ignore the The. Which I'm pretty sure is almost universal. Strangely enough the music app on my phone recently updated and now it sorts all artists that start with The under T. That's the only time I've ever seen that.

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^^ at TYM we only have one entry for Alan Parsons that contains all the various band/project/solo albums, and it's under P.

Alan Parsons Project is a group consisting of Parsons and Eric Woolfson. The name is a bit unfortunate, but APP =/= Alan Parsons.

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:


Really? Most platforms still have a column for the sorting name of the artist, and will use it if filled.

Yeah, you can sort, but it still depends on the platform/site/whatever HOW things are sorted when you click that.


Edited by Stressed Cheese - August 24 2023 at 07:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 06:59
Yeah but I really don't need to see a list of 800 albums with youtube links, it's a bit too spammy for me personally, just makes a thread less of a discussion and more carpet bombing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 06:47
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

You're really going to post your entire collection?

It could be also interesting to hear how many albums you have mutual with Paul  LOL 
- even it's maybe more than one could imagine. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 05:10
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:


I do at least have one album by the Pat Metheny Group, purchased recently following your recommendation. It's just a question now of whether to list him/them under "P" or "M". I always have the same problem too with the Alan Parsons Project, never knowing whether he/they should be listed under "A" or "P". Ermm

Alan Parsons Project is a group, not a person, so A would be appropriate.

For names I also sort by first name, since software does that. It'd annoy me if my iTunes, the music player on my phone, RYM etc. filed stuff by firrst name, and my CD shelves would be the only place to deviate from that. Maybe before digital era I would do it by last name, but first name is pretty much standard now.

Really? Most platforms still have a column for the sorting name of the artist, and will use it if filled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 05:07
^^ at TYM we only have one entry for Alan Parsons that contains all the various band/project/solo albums, and it's under P.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 04:46
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I haven't counted my CD prog collection lately, but 700-800 albums sounds like a pretty good estimate to me. Thumbs Up

However one define Progressive Music, it's much larger than mine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 04:30
^ It seems opinion is still divided as to where to place the Alan Parsons Project alphabetically, but currently, they reside next to Pink Floyd on my prog CD rack. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 04:27
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:


I do at least have one album by the Pat Metheny Group, purchased recently following your recommendation. It's just a question now of whether to list him/them under "P" or "M". I always have the same problem too with the Alan Parsons Project, never knowing whether he/they should be listed under "A" or "P". Ermm

Alan Parsons Project is a group, not a person, so A would be appropriate.

For names I also sort by first name, since software does that. It'd annoy me if my iTunes, the music player on my phone, RYM etc. filed stuff by firrst name, and my CD shelves would be the only place to deviate from that. Maybe before digital era I would do it by last name, but first name is pretty much standard now.

I'm not so sure that's true about RYM. It seems to be filing under P for Alan Parsons Project, Alan Parsons, and Jaco Pastorius on this page: https://rateyourmusic.com/collection/progaardvark/57

Traditionally, record stores, from my experience, have filed under surname for individual artists as well as bands named for an individual, thus I file CDs in my own collection in such a manner. Having said that, I work with metadata in a library and Alan Parsons Project would be filed under A, but Alan Parsons by himself is filed under P. Library filing rules are remarkably complex. See this as an example at the Library of Congress: https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/G100.pdf

I'm not sure what software you are referring to that sorts by first name. Without knowing this, I can only guess that the data has been entered as first name followed by last name. Would it not sort it by surname if you entered it surname, first name? If that's the case, than it's not necessarily a software issue, but a data entry issue. I'm not saying you cannot do that. It is your database and you are welcome to enter it any way you want to. But in shared databases, some sort of standard filing rules should be in place or the database becomes an inconsistent mess. Another issue to consider is initial articles. File The Flower Kings under T or F?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 03:41
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:


I do at least have one album by the Pat Metheny Group, purchased recently following your recommendation. It's just a question now of whether to list him/them under "P" or "M". I always have the same problem too with the Alan Parsons Project, never knowing whether he/they should be listed under "A" or "P". Ermm

Alan Parsons Project is a group, not a person, so A would be appropriate.

For names I also sort by first name, since software does that. It'd annoy me if my iTunes, the music player on my phone, RYM etc. filed stuff by firrst name, and my CD shelves would be the only place to deviate from that. Maybe before digital era I would do it by last name, but first name is pretty much standard now.


Edited by Stressed Cheese - August 24 2023 at 03:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 03:24
Coming up are ways to filter the releases by year, artist a-z, artist country, main genre and prog status ... as you know, there are so many ways to look at the data. Since I've mapped most of the releases and artists, I can also attempt to introduce a filter by pa genre, if enough people are interested. Exports could be offered as plain text, csv and html ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 03:06
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I'm currently building up the "show my collection" area of the TYM website - you're welcome to give it a try, if you're interested. I'll also add ways to export the data in various formats, so entering your collection there doesn't necessarily lock you into using TYM for everything. Check it out if you're interested. Currently the visualisation is quite basic, you can browse all the releases I've rated here: https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike/releases

Thanks for the info and the link. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 02:58
^ I'm currently building up the "show my collection" area of the TYM website - you're welcome to give it a try, if you're interested. I'll also add ways to export the data in various formats, so entering your collection there doesn't necessarily lock you into using TYM for everything. Check it out if you're interested. Currently the visualisation is quite basic, you can browse all the releases I've rated here: https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike/releases
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 02:54
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

You're really going to post your entire collection?

Paul says, it's his "Prog" collection - as far as I remember and reckon, today it's about 700-800 albums.


I haven't counted my CD prog collection lately, but 700-800 albums sounds like a pretty good estimate to me. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 02:29
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

You're really going to post your entire collection?

Paul says, it's his "Prog" collection - as far as I remember and reckon, today it's about 700-800 albums.




Edited by David_D - August 24 2023 at 02:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 02:14
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^List under last name.
Thanks! I'll re-file the Alan Parsons Project under the letter "P" Sooner or Later. Thumbs Up

Yes, as far as I've seen it, it's the standard to file under the main musicians surname, so different bands/projects can be filed the same place. I do it as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2023 at 00:25
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^List under last name.

Thanks! I'll re-file the Alan Parsons Project under the letter "P" Sooner or Later. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2023 at 17:54
^List under last name.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2023 at 17:48
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Can't wait to see the volume of Allan Holdsworth solo or Pat Metheny albums in your collection.

Would I be wrong to assume zero?

I do at least have one album by the Pat Metheny Group, purchased recently following your recommendation. It's just a question now of whether to list him/them under "P" or "M". I always have the same problem too with the Alan Parsons Project, never knowing whether he/they should be listed under "A" or "P". Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2023 at 17:20
^Can't wait to see the volume of Allan Holdsworth solo or Pat Metheny albums in your collection.

Would I be wrong to assume zero?

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - August 23 2023 at 17:20
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