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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 06:10
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Seems to me the practical issue is if hospitals fill up with unvaccinated then it will be harder to get other forms of medical treatment for everyone.


Practical issue? But, but... my freedom. WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM??!!!??! ME! ME! ME!

Being an RN in one of said hospitals, I have grown tired of trying to explain this to people. Then they come in with C19 and spend days in the ED because there are no inpatient beds available. Last year most of the time it was the same old song and dance if they survived, "I didn't believe it was so bad, I should have worn my mask, I should have stayed away from people like was suggested". Fast forward one year and you can add the line, "I should have gotten vaccinated". 

In the U.S. there are roughly 920,000 hospital beds, only 72,000 of those are non-specialty ICU beds. That means there are beds for roughly .2-.3% of the population. Keep in mind, at any given time the vast majority of those beds are full of people who have the regular hospital stuff like heart failure, car accidents, cancer, the various failures that go with trying to drink and eating one's self to death, etc. At one point in the winter of 2018 there were 0 available beds on the entire west coast. So the actual number of additional patient's in a disaster or pandemic type scenario needs to be very small to completely overwhelm the US healthcare system. I shudder to think what would have happened in this country if a handful of those bad 'ol politicians hadn't risked political suicide by initiating lockdowns.
 
This is not a die or be OK virus like it is painted in the media. If you develop the full C19 pneumonia (the dreaded "ground-glass opacities" found in acute syndrome workup) you are fairly likely to develop pulmonary fibrosis, which does not just go away. Most will be left with a lifetime of respiratory problems and decreased function. I've seen numbers as high is 72% PF for people recovering from acute C19 pneumonia, we'll see how the next 5 years pans out. People, young people end up with clotting cascades that result in strokes and amputations. CT scans show organs filled with clots requiring anti-coagulant therapy.
 
I come to PA to not have to think about my job and the events of the last 18 months. But no. I come in to monitor threads like and I see categorical bullsh*t like "mRNA vaccines are experimental gene-therapy".  Or my favorite, "What’s happening now is that we’re creating 2nd class citizens and heading towards a totalitarian system"... are you serious with that crap? Take that snowflaky nonsense to whatever sub-Reddit echo chamber will tolerate it.
 
You know who doesn't have freedoms? Somebody who has a f**king tube jammed down their trachea with a machine breathing for them.

I'm sick of this! I'm sick of the malignant individualism and expectation of freedom without responsibility. Flying flags out the back of giant Tonka trucks like that makes you some kind of patriot by default. I'm sick of cherry-picked data and people digging through the web until they find that one "renegade scientist" that confirms their bias. Hey, what the hell, there's a fairly popular fad diet doctor out there who will tell us all that vegetables are killing us. Better gulp down that corporate cheese burger, but don't eat the tomato. Its deadly poison produced by big tomato!  

Angry



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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 05:35
Thank you for this, Ian. I don't log in much these days, but always have a look at a few threads, and this one tempted me to post something that would've been hidden pronto. Freedom is all very fine and dandy, but I have lived enough to know that it needs to be accompanied by respect for others. There was very little respect for those who have suffered (or died) because of this disease, and for those who have lost loved ones.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 04:12
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Seems to me the practical issue is if hospitals fill up with unvaccinated then it will be harder to get other forms of medical treatment for everyone.


Practical issue? But, but... my freedom. WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM??!!!??! ME! ME! ME!

Being an RN in one of said hospitals, I have grown tired of trying to explain this to people. Then they come in with C19 and spend days in the ED because there are no inpatient beds available. Last year most of the time it was the same old song and dance if they survived, "I didn't believe it was so bad, I should have worn my mask, I should have stayed away from people like was suggested". Fast forward one year and you can add the line, "I should have gotten vaccinated". 

In the U.S. there are roughly 920,000 hospital beds, only 72,000 of those are non-specialty ICU beds. That means there are beds for roughly .2-.3% of the population. Keep in mind, at any given time the vast majority of those beds are full of people who have the regular hospital stuff like heart failure, car accidents, cancer, the various failures that go with trying to drink and eating one's self to death, etc. At one point in the winter of 2018 there were 0 available beds on the entire west coast. So the actual number of additional patient's in a disaster or pandemic type scenario needs to be very small to completely overwhelm the US healthcare system. I shudder to think what would have happened in this country if a handful of those bad 'ol politicians hadn't risked political suicide by initiating lockdowns.
 
This is not a die or be OK virus like it is painted in the media. If you develop the full C19 pneumonia (the dreaded "ground-glass opacities" found in acute syndrome workup) you are fairly likely to develop pulmonary fibrosis, which does not just go away. Most will be left with a lifetime of respiratory problems and decreased function. I've seen numbers as high is 72% PF for people recovering from acute C19 pneumonia, we'll see how the next 5 years pans out. People, young people end up with clotting cascades that result in strokes and amputations. CT scans show organs filled with clots requiring anti-coagulant therapy.
 
I come to PA to not have to think about my job and the events of the last 18 months. But no. I come in to monitor threads like and I see categorical bullsh*t like "mRNA vaccines are experimental gene-therapy".  Or my favorite, "What’s happening now is that we’re creating 2nd class citizens and heading towards a totalitarian system"... are you serious with that crap? Take that snowflaky nonsense to whatever sub-Reddit echo chamber will tolerate it.
 
You know who doesn't have freedoms? Somebody who has a f**king tube jammed down their trachea with a machine breathing for them.

I'm sick of this! I'm sick of the malignant individualism and expectation of freedom without responsibility. Flying flags out the back of giant Tonka trucks like that makes you some kind of patriot by default. I'm sick of cherry-picked data and people digging through the web until they find that one "renegade scientist" that confirms their bias. Hey, what the hell, there's a fairly popular fad diet doctor out there who will tell us all that vegetables are killing us. Better gulp down that corporate cheese burger, but don't eat the tomato. Its deadly poison produced by big tomato!  

Angry
This is the best post I've ever seen in PA. Yes, big pharma and doctors make money, but when it comes to saving someone from entering eternity the cure is worth every single penny. As far as the conspiracy theorists are concerned, they are a small minority with the loudest voices due to their frustration, so they appear to be more prevalent. Only when they are stricken with this deadly disease will their eyes be opened. But at that point, it may be too late for them. Karma, unfortunately, runs the game.

Edited by SteveG - July 31 2021 at 07:34
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Points: 166183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 04:01
Originally posted by DamoXt7942 DamoXt7942 wrote:

Would you please be thoughtful for serious COVID patients, recovered patients with sequalaes, or all medical workers especially in emergency hospitals all over the world? Thank you. Cry

empathy is not a trait of humanity, especially of those that reside in the USA. 
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Points: 14892 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2021 at 03:30
@siLLy puPPy: Everybody who reads this and other threads should know by now that you "researched these very topics for well over 1000 hours" and have a biology degree, which adds absolutely zero to your arguments, or let's rather say to your patchy references to "arguments" of others. You could write more to the point postings without repeating that stuff over and over again but it seems you think you have to because the content of what you otherwise write may not be strong enough to stand for itself... just wondering... Wink
 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 23:02
Would you please be thoughtful for serious COVID patients, recovered patients with sequalaes, or all medical workers especially in emergency hospitals all over the world? Thank you. Cry
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Points: 6042 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 22:26
Well said, thank you.
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Points: 8588 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 21:59
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Seems to me the practical issue is if hospitals fill up with unvaccinated then it will be harder to get other forms of medical treatment for everyone.


Practical issue? But, but... my freedom. WHAT ABOUT MY FREEDOM??!!!??! ME! ME! ME!

Being an RN in one of said hospitals, I have grown tired of trying to explain this to people. Then they come in with C19 and spend days in the ED because there are no inpatient beds available. Last year most of the time it was the same old song and dance if they survived, "I didn't believe it was so bad, I should have worn my mask, I should have stayed away from people like was suggested". Fast forward one year and you can add the line, "I should have gotten vaccinated". 

In the U.S. there are roughly 920,000 hospital beds, only 72,000 of those are non-specialty ICU beds. That means there are beds for roughly .2-.3% of the population. Keep in mind, at any given time the vast majority of those beds are full of people who have the regular hospital stuff like heart failure, car accidents, cancer, the various failures that go with trying to drink and eating one's self to death, etc. At one point in the winter of 2018 there were 0 available beds on the entire west coast. So the actual number of additional patient's in a disaster or pandemic type scenario needs to be very small to completely overwhelm the US healthcare system. I shudder to think what would have happened in this country if a handful of those bad 'ol politicians hadn't risked political suicide by initiating lockdowns.
 
This is not a die or be OK virus like it is painted in the media. If you develop the full C19 pneumonia (the dreaded "ground-glass opacities" found in acute syndrome workup) you are fairly likely to develop pulmonary fibrosis, which does not just go away. Most will be left with a lifetime of respiratory problems and decreased function. I've seen numbers as high is 72% PF for people recovering from acute C19 pneumonia, we'll see how the next 5 years pans out. People, young people end up with clotting cascades that result in strokes and amputations. CT scans show organs filled with clots requiring anti-coagulant therapy.
 
I come to PA to not have to think about my job and the events of the last 18 months. But no. I come in to monitor threads like and I see categorical bullsh*t like "mRNA vaccines are experimental gene-therapy".  Or my favorite, "What’s happening now is that we’re creating 2nd class citizens and heading towards a totalitarian system"... are you serious with that crap? Take that snowflaky nonsense to whatever sub-Reddit echo chamber will tolerate it.
 
You know who doesn't have freedoms? Somebody who has a f**king tube jammed down their trachea with a machine breathing for them.

I'm sick of this! I'm sick of the malignant individualism and expectation of freedom without responsibility. Flying flags out the back of giant Tonka trucks like that makes you some kind of patriot by default. I'm sick of cherry-picked data and people digging through the web until they find that one "renegade scientist" that confirms their bias. Hey, what the hell, there's a fairly popular fad diet doctor out there who will tell us all that vegetables are killing us. Better gulp down that corporate cheese burger, but don't eat the tomato. Its deadly poison produced by big tomato!  

Angry


Edited by Tapfret - July 31 2021 at 00:36

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Points: 15272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 18:34
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:


<p ="Msonormal">Forget about conspiracy theories, think for yourself and
apply some common sense.<o:p></o:p>



<p ="Msonormal">One example; science tells us that natural immunity is more
robust than what you get from the vaccine.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
</span>Logic would then dictate that getting the mRNA jab is not worth the
risk.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>So why the mandates with no regard
towards natural immunity?<o:p></o:p>



<p ="Msonormal">As to the real motive, i’m not sure. As discussed on the previous
page it could just all be about the money.

<p ="Msonormal"><o:p></o:p>


I totally understand people's concerns about the nature of the vaccines being offered. I've discussed this with friends who are medical professionals so I do understand how these vaccines are different from how vaccines are usually developed.

But, I have seen no evidence of anything particularly nefarious going on. I do not see any evidence of evil plots and attempts to use vaccines for "world domination" or any other far fetched schemes and conspiracies.


How many hours have you seriously sat down and researched patents and legislation? I personally have sat down and researched these things, viewed thousands of hours of lectures from renegade doctors, scientists and legal experts who have blown the whistle.

You have to actually dig in and do the dirty work to understand these things otherwise you are literally only randomly choosing propaganda that has been carved out by organizations such as the Tavistock Institute of Public Relations.

One thing you have to understand is that doctors and medical professionals are trained to follow orders and they aren't privvy to the orders of the higher ups. A very few who can figure out what's going on and have the moral fortitude to bring it to the public's attention are out there attempting to make the people aware of how what's unfolding and why we should be concerned.

Are you aware of the Baye-Dole Act of 1980? It basically was set up to quash scientific inquiries that went against a preordained business model set up by various corporations. They set up a committee to decide if even a question can be asked regarding any profitable technologies. This also resulted in complete IMMUNIZATION of the vaccine industry therefore there is no recourse for any injuries.

The aforementioned act dictated that scientific prospects that go against the business model will be quashed and cut off from any possible funding. Add to that if someone happens to find a natural cure for cancer or dabbles in free energy as well as other unapproved scientific inquiry, then their patents will be deemed a threat to national security (in the USA) and then can legally be seized for use by the US government.

Now do those of you who place these statements in the same camp as flat earthers really know what you're talking about? Have you ever bothered to read The Patriot Act or other ear marks on legislative bills that get passed in the wee hours of the night?

Patents and legislation do not lie. They are as real as the statute laws that govern the contractual agreements between McDonalds and the potato farmer. Also all one has to do is review the peer magazines that come out and it becomes much clearer exactly where the nefarious aspects of intent enter the picture. We are a commodity.

Of course i cannot convince anybody of anything on a music forum but as someone who has a degree in biology and as someone who has researched these very topics for well over 1000 hours during the last year (at least), i can tell you that i would NEVER accept an injection of any kind. Optimal health comes from comprehending the true nature of the biological being and comprehending how the entire system is structured around creating the problem in order to sell the cure is the key to absolute medical freedom.

Now if anyone thinks any of this is "conspiracy theory," they are clearly beyond hope of comprehending what's provable in a court of law and what's mere heresy.

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Points: 15272 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 18:12
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:




You're all Trump haters here yet you embrace his decision to use the Stafford Act to sign over the US government to FEMA? He's the one who signed the emergency declaration to allow injections unapproved by the FDA to implemented. Cognitive dissonance in action? or just lack of deeper understanding of cause and effect?
The only cognitive dissonance I see is Trump lovers believing in a rigged election and denying that the assault on the Capital on 1/6/2021 was anything more than a peaceful non violent protest.


Nah, i see lots of so-called Trump haters following the very path he laid down with an emergency declaration of non-FDA approved gene therapy injections.

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Points: 65317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 16:22
^ It turns out medicine is the best medicine.
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Points: 166183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 16:17
^ Medicine is a hoax man. I'm not even sure I believe in hospitals. Have you ever really seen one? I thought not. 
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Points: 65317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 15:18
Seems to me the practical issue is if hospitals fill up with unvaccinated then it will be harder to get other forms of medical treatment for everyone.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Points: 14892 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 15:01
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

I have natural immunity, and even if I didn’t my choice would be to gamble with the virus versus risking the vaccine.  This would be my choice, your choice may be different, and that’s fine, that’s the way it should be.  


Chances are you are not interested in the lives of those who are at higher risk of dying due to Covid if not vaccinated, and some of them can't even get vaccinated even if they wanted because they are at high risk from that as well? Not interested in what happens in hospitals where the virus is allowed to spread freely in order to enable "natural immunity"? No it's not just about "me me me and my choice", it's about working together to make the spread of the virus slower and less harmful, and lower chances of new variants developing. Everybody has a role in this.

I don't actually think people should be forced to be vaccinated, I know that we don't know a good deal about long term effects of the vaccination (same is true about Covid by the way but conveniently ignored by the no vaxers). But it bewilders me if people think this is only about their own personal risk. And if democratically elected governments think that for the benefit of the many vaccination or a negative test should be required to take part in certain events and activities, so be it (by the way, in Europe natural immunity should get you a Green pass as well). You can make your choice. Choices have consequences. Live with the consequences.


Edited by Lewian - July 30 2021 at 15:06
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Points: 51474 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 14:34
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

From donuts to dollars..

lottery tickets, baseball tickets, free food and drinks, pre-rolled joints and other foolish bribes.  Everyone step right up and now you can receive $100 so we can test an experimental gene therapy on you.  

There is no long term data as to any side effects of this new software for the cells.

The cloak and dagger, censorship, dishonesty, bribes, should have everyone questioning as to the real motive of this vaccine push.


Yeah, I know. It's just not fair to those of us that got vaccinated back in April and May. Where's our $100, free food, and lottery tickets? I guess more sensible people simply don't get rewards other than knowing we know how to do reliable research and don't become victims to bullsh*t.


Edited by progaardvark - July 30 2021 at 14:36
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Points: 20631 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 13:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Did ever get the feeling that you are talking to someone who secretly thinks the world is flat?

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Points: 1396 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 12:20
Originally posted by Shadowyzard Shadowyzard wrote:

^ My common sense tells me that our lifespans are longer thanks to the "materialistic" science, and I prefer to have fun with "fantastical" things (including the "post-materialistic" science). I sure question lots of things, but I know your motive "behind" that invitation. You know, experience and observation grants one some "unquestionable" insights. Wink

I’m all about science and technology, which go hand in hand but are not the same.

I like the mRNA technology and I think it holds great promise in the future but is not ready yet.   If I had cancer I may want to take the risk and try the experimental treatment.  But that should be my choice!

No one should have the authority to dictate what I must put inside my body!

I have natural immunity, and even if I didn’t my choice would be to gamble with the virus versus risking the vaccine.  This would be my choice, your choice may be different, and that’s fine, that’s the way it should be. 

What’s happening now is that we’re creating 2nd class citizens and heading towards a totalitarian system.  Those that chose not to be vaccinated are slowly being locked out of the world.  Many of which have a more robust immune system towards the virus then those that have been vaccinated.

Freedoms and rights are being stripped away and people are either blind or are refusing to acknowledge this. To me this is more serious and scary than the virus.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 11:59
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^ Exactly!
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Points: 10669 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2021 at 11:50
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:


<p ="Msonormal">Forget about conspiracy theories, think for yourself and
apply some common sense.<o:p></o:p>



<p ="Msonormal">One example; science tells us that natural immunity is more
robust than what you get from the vaccine.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
</span>Logic would then dictate that getting the mRNA jab is not worth the
risk.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>So why the mandates with no regard
towards natural immunity?<o:p></o:p>



<p ="Msonormal">As to the real motive, i’m not sure. As discussed on the previous
page it could just all be about the money.

<p ="Msonormal"><o:p></o:p>


I totally understand people's concerns about the nature of the vaccines being offered. I've discussed this with friends who are medical professionals so I do understand how these vaccines are different from how vaccines are usually developed.

But, I have seen no evidence of anything particularly nefarious going on. I do not see any evidence of evil plots and attempts to use vaccines for "world domination" or any other far fetched schemes and conspiracies.
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