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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
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Points: 89372
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:40 |
Hmmm, well Hammill's lyrics are different with every song. Some are easier to understand than others. e.g. (No More) the Sub-mariner In my youth, I played at trains: now all steam is gone. In my dreams, brief shelter from the rain, I try to catch the fireglow.... With Dinky Toys, I thought that I was Stirling, with cricket bat, I saw myself as Peter May; now, with all these images returning, I wonder who I am today? As a child, I refought the war with plastic planes and imagination: I sank Tirpitz, blew up the Mohne dam, all these and more, I was the saviour of the Nation! Oh! To be the captain of a ship of war! The pilot of a Tempest or a York! To hold my trench against the Panzer Korps instead of simply being one who talks and reminisces of his fantasies, as though life was nothing but to lose... these only antecede the knowledge that, eventually, he must choose. It's a hallmark of adulthood that our options diminish as our faculties for choice increase, till we choose everything and nothing, too late, at the finish. In my youth, I held belief: my faith and thought were strong. But now I'm stripped of every leaf, and it robs me of the sight of right and wrong. Oh! To be the son of Che Guevara! One unit in the serried ranks of black! A Papist or an Orangeman, a eunuch... then doubt would never cast the dagger in my back. Oh! To be King John or Douglas Bader, Humphrey Bogart or Victor Mature! Which one is false and easy, which one harder? Of that, of this, of me I'm really not too sure.
That's straitforward to me. It also happens that the music is also fantastic. You should try Hammill solo, his lyrics are different to VdGG ones for a reason.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:39 |
Padraic wrote:
He just has a high tolerance. It's not like he's a raging drunk who's being destructive.
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Exactly.
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:39 |
@Shajamus, stop being obtuse @Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right ) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you. But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Points: 32524
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:38 |
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LinusW
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Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
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Points: 10665
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:38 |
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:37 |
LinusW wrote:
Peart is a lot better when he's pretty straight-forward and non-politic. I like his robust style, as long as he isn't preachy.
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Understandable. Not sure if I agree though.
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Padraic
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31169
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:37 |
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:36 |
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Evolutionary Sleeper
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Joined: December 30 2008
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:35 |
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Epignosis
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:35 |
James wrote:
Padraic wrote:
He just has a high tolerance. It's not like he's a raging drunk who's being destructive.
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True but the tolerance will just get higher and higher.
I've seen it myself and it upsets me.
| Actually, it's tapered off.
And, by the way, I almost completely abstain from liquor (and wine too). That was a nasty bug.
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Padraic
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:35 |
I have about 2-3 beers a night, I'm not inclined to really do more than that.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:35 |
James wrote:
You used Peart as an example and claimed I disliked his lyrics. So it's not my fault.
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Sigh. Let's try this again. We are two completely different people with completely different perspectives on life. Let me use a different example. Two people look at a painting by Monet and then at a painting by Warhol. Chances are, if you get two people who aren't very similar with their beliefs on the world together and show them two completely different paintings, they will be "communicated" different messages, pictures, or images from the art work. Eventually, in this scenario, you would reach a painting or piece of art that would not strike one of the people but that the other person would love, simply because of value systems and how each person's mind works. Your mind is wired quite differently from mine. I see everything as rational and mathematical, forms of concrete matter, and I value reason and individualism above anything else. Hammill's lyrics communicate nothing to me and make me go WTF because, with the way my mind is wired, they don't register anything that makes logical sense to me. Take, for example, the lyrics to Man-Erg or any other VDGG song. I don't find them poetic because they don't mean anything to me; I don't understand Hammill's point of view. It doesn't matter how hard I try, I won't get it, just because of the way I view the world and view people in the world. In fact, they embody something that I really don't like---the value of emotional input above rationality. That is why I find the lyrics disgusting, because they embody something that my personal value system doesn't like. It works the same way in music as it does for anything else. Our interests and personalities can be explained. There are underlying factors of our being--soul, if you wish--that form the gridlocks of our internal thoughts. Every single nanosecond, we are bombarded by interferences... people, the Earth, particles, concepts, whatever, and we make a response to them based on our internal system. That's how people form hobbies and what they like and don't like. It goes from the most subtle forms of response where they are much more ingrained and difficult to explain (which foods you may barely prefer to others) to more obvious forms of response (someone who chooses to profess the Catholic religion, for example, would be against something like abortion if they are extremely rigid to their beliefs). The example is irrelevant. It works for anything and everything. I don't like Hammill's lyrics or vocals because they don't strike me on a personal level; they represent something which is completely out of tune with perspectives that I understand.
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Ricochet
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Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
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Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:35 |
Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
It baffles me how you're wife accepts your supposedly daily lean towards alcohol.
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She doesn't.
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Then?
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Ricochet
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Joined: February 27 2005
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:34 |
James wrote:
Padraic wrote:
He just has a high tolerance. It's not like he's a raging drunk who's being destructive.
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True but the tolerance will just get higher and higher.
I've seen it myself and it upsets me.
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I' ve only reached dangerous dizzyness, and it was from whiskey. I'm totally tolerant to beer by now.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:34 |
Ricochet wrote:
It baffles me how you're wife accepts your supposedly daily lean towards alcohol.
| She doesn't.
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
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Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:33 |
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Padraic
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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Points: 31169
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:33 |
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LinusW
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Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:33 |
I was on a booze cruise on Friday, followed by a party. My liver cried.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:32 |
Padraic wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Padraic wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
I'd drink to that but, at my end, it's like Robert's house after 7.30. All the beer's gone.
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There damn well better be beer in my house after 7:30.
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I've got plenty. We had a brunch for Mother's Day yesterday. My wife's family doesn't do dry events.
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No one in my wife's family drinks. It's a big no-no. Except her uncle, who is in and out of jail.
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Of course - see where drinking lands you?
| I'll have you know that I've never so much as had a traffic ticket.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:32 |
Padraic wrote:
He just has a high tolerance. It's not like he's a raging drunk who's being destructive.
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True but the tolerance will just get higher and higher. I've seen it myself and it upsets me.
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