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Padraic 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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 Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:48 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:48 |
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Rob and Pat approach fail point, and me and James know precisely why.
Oh, Rob (Orb) too.
Edited by Ricochet - May 11 2009 at 15:48
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:47 |
 James wrote:
Hmmm, well Hammill's lyrics are different with every song. Some are easier to understand than others.
e.g.
(No More) the Sub-mariner
/lyrics
That's straitforward to me. It also happens that the music is also fantastic. You should try Hammill solo, his lyrics are different to VdGG ones for a reason.
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Sure, in a case like that, it's easy to read and understand what he's saying. But to me, it completely is on a level to where I can't relate to it at all on a personal level, and therefore I can't enjoy it. It doesn't make personal sense to me. And someday I may try a Hammill solo album. I will approach with caution though, and there are loads of other things I wan to hear first, so I may never get around to it. It isn't particularly high on my priorities, simply because of preference.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:47 |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:47 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46 |
Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):
I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.
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Cha cha cha!
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That's "Sound Chaser." You're not even with the right band.  
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46 |
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46 |
MovingPictures07 wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
@Shajamus, stop being obtuse 
@Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right ) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you.
But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread
I understand that. I am not a poet; I only speak the musical language. Therefore, poetry to me doesn't quite have the same meaning to me as it would to someone who is passionate about poetry or literature... just like how music doesn't quite have the same meaning to someone who is passionate about music and to someone who isn't.
Because of that, the most I have to go by when it comes to lyrics is more instinctual. I'm much more attune to the music of a song than the lyrics--I typically think that the music is more important, and I listen to music entirely on the basis of understanding what is going with the musical language, not the English. I do know though that it entirely depends on the case. Sometimes lyrics are just as important, or more important. Everything is treated on an individual piece by piece basis.
The problem with VDGG is that the music doesn't work for me at all. And usually I am pretty tolerant of lyrics I don't care for as much because the music is good--they cancel out the lyrics. In VDGG, the lack of anything interesting in the music (for me, anyway) allows my mind to think about the lyrics more. Incidentally, the lyrics are entirely to the opposite of my innate, instinctual preference.
Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.
I agree completely with that, and I'd never say I'm qualified enough in the realms of literature or poetry to say that Peart is, compositionally, and based purely on terms of lyricism, better than Hammill. What I have to go on here mostly is preference, as I'm a musician first.
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 Absolutely fine by me.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46 |
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But those lyrics are not typical Hammill.
That's my point.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:46 |
Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):
I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.
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Cha cha cha!
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Sound Chaser?
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45 |
Padraic wrote:
I need to listen to all my VdGG albums more.
They require a lot of work to appreciate, for me.
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I last did a VdGG marathon in December 07.
Edited by Ricochet - May 11 2009 at 15:46
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45 |
Padraic wrote:
OK Roblov, I think we're getting somewhere with Plague this go-round.
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 Have many points... it took me about 20 lessons to really get that album (I liked it from the first try, I just didn't get what it was trying to do/why I liked it/how good it was etc.. I'm still not sure I've got everything. @Sha-jamus... you're still being a bit obtuse. Alex's point is that he doesn't agree with Hammill's worldview/ideas, so consequently something more straightforwards isn't really going to change his mind.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45 |
Epignosis wrote:
(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):
I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.
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Cha cha cha!
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
Status: Offline
Points: 32181
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
@Shajamus, stop being obtuse
@Alex, I'm fairly confident (I've got some experience with this sort of thing, but I'm not always right ) that, from a technical/pure-poetic standpoint, Hammill's lyrics are, by and large, a cut above Peart's (in the same way that T.S. Eliot is technically leagues ahead of either of them). On the other hand, I can (I think) understand where you're coming from, and appreciate how the 'content'/meaning of them wouldn't work for you.
But yeah, Peart's the right lyricist for Rush and he's quite good... I guess my annoyance at seeing something like Hemispheres being suggested as a best lyric ever is the same feeling Harry gets when he sees Steven Wilson get mentioned in a 'most technical guitarists' thread
I understand that. I am not a poet; I only speak the musical language. Therefore, poetry to me doesn't quite have the same meaning to me as it would to someone who is passionate about poetry or literature... just like how music doesn't quite have the same meaning to someone who is passionate about music and to someone who isn't.
Because of that, the most I have to go by when it comes to lyrics is more instinctual. I'm much more attune to the music of a song than the lyrics--I typically think that the music is more important, and I listen to music entirely on the basis of understanding what is going with the musical language, not the English. I do know though that it entirely depends on the case. Sometimes lyrics are just as important, or more important. Everything is treated on an individual piece by piece basis.
The problem with VDGG is that the music doesn't work for me at all. And usually I am pretty tolerant of lyrics I don't care for as much because the music is good--they cancel out the lyrics. In VDGG, the lack of anything interesting in the music (for me, anyway) allows my mind to think about the lyrics more. Incidentally, the lyrics are entirely to the opposite of my innate, instinctual preference.
Anyway, overall, agree, people are allowed to like things as much as they like them, just wanted to mention that there is a generally objective side to lyrics/poetry as much as there is to, say, musical performance.
I agree completely with that, and I'd never say I'm qualified enough in the realms of literature or poetry to say that Peart is, compositionally, and based purely on terms of lyricism, better than Hammill. What I have to go on here mostly is preference, as I'm a musician first.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:45 |
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I need to listen to all my VdGG albums more.
They require a lot of work to appreciate, for me.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:44 |
Excellent. We're getting there slowly. 
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:44 |
Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
It baffles me how you're wife accepts your supposedly daily lean towards alcohol.
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She doesn't.
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Then?
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I'll just quote my favorite story from James Joyce to sum it up:
"His wife was a little sharp-faced woman who bullied her husband when he was sober and was bullied by him when he was drunk."
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:42 |
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(To uncomfortably change the subject and avoid an unexpected intervention):
I listened to Godbluff yesterday and wasn't repulsed.
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 10665
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:42 |
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Bah.
Time for me to read a lot. Will be back to vent my angst in a couple of hours.
See you.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: May 11 2009 at 15:41 |
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OK Roblov, I think we're getting somewhere with Plague this go-round.
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