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Chris S 
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 Posted: April 16 2014 at 01:44 |
^ Maybe cos you only heard it 78/79 took the gloss off a bit for you  I mean you might have been distracted with Platinum, China or Cyclone.
I just cannot relate to anyone not getting it sorry. Rogerthat made a good point earlier about how we were spoilt for choice with Floyd in the 70's from the album's perspective.
Edited by Chris S - April 16 2014 at 01:45
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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richardh
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Posted: April 16 2014 at 01:29 |
 Chris S wrote:
^ just being modest I think was RW |
possibly although I remember some comment about lyrics that could have been written by a sixth former.
when I was a sixth former myself (about 1978) I remember someone telling me it had been in the charts for 5 years straight and I told them to f**k off in no uncertain terms assuming they were bullsh*tting. Of course they were right. I heard it for the first time l later that year and couldn't help but think 'is that all there is?'. Time is my favorite PF track but the rest (bar perhaps Gig although its best enjoyed as a live experience imo) is for me best summed up by that expression that others use and I hate 'MEH'.
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Chris S
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Posted: April 16 2014 at 01:20 |
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^ just being modest I think was RW
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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richardh
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Posted: April 16 2014 at 01:14 |
Mirror Image wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
You're right, Roger. The lyrics to "Time" are metaphoric and refer to how we "fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way", and the feeling that years get shorter as you get older until in essence one runs out of time. But then the lyrics get very specific with "The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older". So obviously Barney is not at all clear on the concept, and his argument collapses like a fat girl on a wobbly barstool.
What Barney utterly fails to understand is that DSotM is a better concept album than either WYWH or Animals. The lyrics are indeed superb, and the transitions from one song to the next are brilliant and seamless. In conceptual implementation, lyrical continuity, engineering and sound innovation DSotM is a progressive landmark, and I mean progressive in every sense of the word. |
 So much truth in this post that it really made me smile and anyone who cannot at least acknowledge Dark Side of the Moon as a work of genius should be chained to the floor and bullwhipped. |
you might have to include Roger Waters as well as me then as didn't he say that he was surprised 'he got away with it'?
Edited by richardh - April 16 2014 at 01:15
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Mirror Image
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 22:37 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
You're right, Roger. The lyrics to "Time" are metaphoric and refer to how we "fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way", and the feeling that years get shorter as you get older until in essence one runs out of time. But then the lyrics get very specific with "The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older". So obviously Barney is not at all clear on the concept, and his argument collapses like a fat girl on a wobbly barstool.
What Barney utterly fails to understand is that DSotM is a better concept album than either WYWH or Animals. The lyrics are indeed superb, and the transitions from one song to the next are brilliant and seamless. In conceptual implementation, lyrical continuity, engineering and sound innovation DSotM is a progressive landmark, and I mean progressive in every sense of the word. |
So much truth in this post that it really made me smile and anyone who cannot at least acknowledge Dark Side of the Moon as a work of genius should be chained to the floor and bullwhipped.
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“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 22:11 |
rogerthat wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Strangely, though (and you cannot prove otherwise as its a fact) clearly as earth is slowing down in it's spin! Each day is in fact slightly longer than the last! so as you get older the days are actually getting longer (not shorter). The child's perception of time is seemingly different than of an older adult! But this perception difference is very hard to quantify as it is clearly different depending on the context that the brain is using when parsing the effect of actual time against perceived time!!!
Regardless, Animals & WYWH and Meddle (Echoes) are all far superior from a prog point of view! Who would disagree?? |
I think the lines quite clearly, read with context, refer to our perception of time, to the 'time is running out' cliche. Because scientifically speaking, it's not the sun that's going down and coming up behind you again. '
And I would disagree with your second para, since you asked. I consider DSOTM lyrically superior to all those three albums and there's also an overall coherence which kind of makes it one long prog epic rather than a bunch of songs. If you look at it as a bunch of songs and disregard the lyrics, you are not going to like DSOTM very much indeed. |
You're right, Roger. The lyrics to "Time" are metaphoric and refer to how we "fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way", and the feeling that years get shorter as you get older until in essence one runs out of time. But then the lyrics get very specific with "The sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older". So obviously Barney is not at all clear on the concept, and his argument collapses like a fat girl on a wobbly barstool.
What Barney utterly fails to understand is that DSotM is a better concept album than either WYWH or Animals. The lyrics are indeed superb, and the transitions from one song to the next are brilliant and seamless. In conceptual implementation, lyrical continuity, engineering and sound innovation DSotM is a progressive landmark, and I mean progressive in every sense of the word.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dellinger
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 21:47 |
rogerthat wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Let me put it this way, WYWH is the album that works best for a general audience rather than a hardcore PF audience. It has a singalong easy acoustic track and a lush, emotional epic with more of a traditional prog structure. Notice how many hardcore Genesis fans insist Nursery Cryme is their best album while prog fans in general gravitate to SEBTP. WYWH performs the same function with respect to Floyd. It is not surprising that WYWH often gets hailed as their best but as a Floyd fan, I would not agree. There are parts that I find positively dreary though on the whole I do like it a lot.
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Well, I am certainly a Floyd fan, and as such, I can say that my favourite Floyd album is Wish you were Here. And do you know which is Gilmour's favourite Floyd album? Wish you were Here itself. So, I guess it's not a matter of being a Floyd fand or a prog fan or a 70's classic rock fan or whatever, it's just a matter of taste. |
I never said WYWH is a bad album or that it shouldn't be anybody's favourite album. Well, I think you would relate to my point better if you looked at the RYM charts for Pink Floyd. WYWH (4.31) and DSOTM (4.29) are comfortably at the top (with WYWH edging out even DSOTM) while Animals is quite a bit lower at 4.12 and Meddle even lower at 4.02. My point is simply that as a hardcore Floyd fan, I simply don't see this huge gap between WYWH and say Animals or Wall. Animals may not deliver the same experience as WYWH but it's just a different side of the band. A hardcore fan tends to embrace more facets of a band while a casual fan is more interested in the ones that tick all the 'must have' boxes of the genre. In Floyd's case, from a prog perspective, that album is WYWH so it's not surprising it is rated the highest. Ditto with SEBTP. It's not that I don't like the album and I have personally rated both Cryme and SEBTP the same. But I just don't see this gulf between Cryme and SEBTP; it's a different side of the band, that's all. At the same time, I do understand why non fans or casual fans would gravitate towards WYWH or SEBTP respectively and far be it for me to grudge their choice. |
I never thought you meant to say that WYWH was a bad album, but you said that Floyd fans wouldn't consider it their favourite, as oposed to prog fans but not particularly Floyd fans. And as a Floyd fan, I can tell you that's not true, my favourite one is WYWH. However, I agree with you, I don't see such a huge gap between WYWH and Animals... as a matter of fact, I might actually have some trouble choosing my favourite of the two, and Animals has been winning in my apreciation vs WYWH. As for The Wall, I do find a notable gap in my apreciation for that album vs the other two.
As for Genesis, there I might say I'm not a hardcore fan of the band, but I certainly like SEBTP best from them (and if it were not for Epping Forest it would be a no brainer 5 star for me), and I certainly like it better than Cryme, mainly because on Cryme, the only long song I do like is Musical Box, and I find the other ones rather annoying (even though the album does have some lovely shorter songs).
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King Crimson776
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 20:46 |
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Fearless and A Pillow of Winds are some of the best boring music ever.
It's very relaxing, in the right mood. Echoes in itself makes the album a
contender though. Animals just kind of meanders on with that heavy,
pretentious feel and no content to back it up. At least be lighthearted
if your music is lightweight. Some of those climaxes seem good but I
find myself not caring after the rest of the dreary track.
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Horizons
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 20:04 |
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Animals is tedious but not Meddle? Do you find having more than half of the tracks being boring/awful acoustic songs a good thing?
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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King Crimson776
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 19:44 |
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I agree, Animals is tedious. Meddle followed by WYWH are my favorites. Some of the best atmosphere in rock music. Generally I find their music lacking in content though.
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rogerthat
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 19:16 |
M27Barney wrote:
Strangely, though (and you cannot prove otherwise as its a fact) clearly as earth is slowing down in it's spin! Each day is in fact slightly longer than the last! so as you get older the days are actually getting longer (not shorter). The child's perception of time is seemingly different than of an older adult! But this perception difference is very hard to quantify as it is clearly different depending on the context that the brain is using when parsing the effect of actual time against perceived time!!!
Regardless, Animals & WYWH and Meddle (Echoes) are all far superior from a prog point of view! Who would disagree?? |
I think the lines quite clearly, read with context, refer to our perception of time, to the 'time is running out' cliche. Because scientifically speaking, it's not the sun that's going down and coming up behind you again. '
And I would disagree with your second para, since you asked. I consider DSOTM lyrically superior to all those three albums and there's also an overall coherence which kind of makes it one long prog epic rather than a bunch of songs. If you look at it as a bunch of songs and disregard the lyrics, you are not going to like DSOTM very much indeed.
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Kentucky_Hawkwindage
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 16:29 |
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Speaking for myself i'd much rather hear Animals any day than DSOTM.I haven't listened to DSOTM in years,unless by chance i heard a track of it on the local rock station-i'm not knocking it,just relaying a fact.In fact i still have a sealed CD of the DSOTM i bought years ago,just haven't had the urge to open it let alone play it.But i will some sunny day.I had a copy of DSOTM on white vinyl but sold it on ebay.....maybe i should have hung on to it?
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"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal" Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
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dr wu23
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 15:58 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
If I may chime in here - I've OD'd on DSOTM over the years so I give it 4 stars. It is a cleverly crafted set with amazing sound effects, cutting edge instrumentation, endless creativity and themes which relate to most folks. Call it destiny, but it was bound to be as popular as it became, simple and direct, yet complex and involved. I can't say I've met anyone who dislikes the album. |
That pretty much sums up what I was going to post about DSOTM.
If one looks at the ratings here on PS there isn't much difference.
DSOTM 4.59
WYWH 4.62
Animals 4.52
It's simply a matter of which one you like the best on personal reasons.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Tom Ozric
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 15:38 |
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If I may chime in here - I've OD'd on DSOTM over the years so I give it 4 stars. It is a cleverly crafted set with amazing sound effects, cutting edge instrumentation, endless creativity and themes which relate to most folks. Call it destiny, but it was bound to be as popular as it became, simple and direct, yet complex and involved. I can't say I've met anyone who dislikes the album.
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M27Barney
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 11:53 |
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Strangely, though (and you cannot prove otherwise as its a fact) clearly as earth is slowing down in it's spin! Each day is in fact slightly longer than the last! so as you get older the days are actually getting longer (not shorter). The child's perception of time is seemingly different than of an older adult! But this perception difference is very hard to quantify as it is clearly different depending on the context that the brain is using when parsing the effect of actual time against perceived time!!!
Regardless, Animals & WYWH and Meddle (Echoes) are all far superior from a prog point of view! Who would disagree??
Edited by M27Barney - April 15 2014 at 11:54
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rogerthat
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 10:02 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
I'm not a Floyd fan, haven't even heard Animals in its entirety, heartily loathe Wish You Were Here and the Wall but do like Piper at the Gates of Dawn and most of Saucerful of Secrets. Just wanted to say that the music on DSOTM is clearly very accomplished, sophisticated, prescient and hook laden pop/rock but I personally find it a bit bland. However, I also think the lyrics are probably some of the greatest that have ever been included on any music album irrespective of style or genre. If you can present the following sentiment to everyman and make him or her embrace same as accessible art then you are richly deserving of the label of genius. This is some of the worst news any of us are ever likely to hear yet it somehow flies under the intellect's radar and the album's sales prove irrefutably that John Updike was correct when he said we contain chords someone else must strike:
Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time
plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Everyone's existential dilemma and ultimately thwarted desires are contained in these unflinching lines so kudos to Roger Waters for finally dispensing entirely with rock's perpetually re-enacted rites of passage. Maybe Pop music finally grew up on DSOTM? Maybe senile dementia (or at the very least incurable bed wetting) kicked in circa Tales From Topographic Oceans?
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Yes, that is a great explanation for Dark Side's enduring appeal and also the reason why it will be hard to make another Dark Side. An album that sums up so many of our worldly anxieties in just a few words will always have an audience.
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rogerthat
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 09:57 |
Dellinger wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Let me put it this way, WYWH is the album that works best for a general audience rather than a hardcore PF audience. It has a singalong easy acoustic track and a lush, emotional epic with more of a traditional prog structure. Notice how many hardcore Genesis fans insist Nursery Cryme is their best album while prog fans in general gravitate to SEBTP. WYWH performs the same function with respect to Floyd. It is not surprising that WYWH often gets hailed as their best but as a Floyd fan, I would not agree. There are parts that I find positively dreary though on the whole I do like it a lot.
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Well, I am certainly a Floyd fan, and as such, I can say that my favourite Floyd album is Wish you were Here. And do you know which is Gilmour's favourite Floyd album? Wish you were Here itself. So, I guess it's not a matter of being a Floyd fand or a prog fan or a 70's classic rock fan or whatever, it's just a matter of taste. |
I never said WYWH is a bad album or that it shouldn't be anybody's favourite album. Well, I think you would relate to my point better if you looked at the RYM charts for Pink Floyd. WYWH (4.31) and DSOTM (4.29) are comfortably at the top (with WYWH edging out even DSOTM) while Animals is quite a bit lower at 4.12 and Meddle even lower at 4.02. My point is simply that as a hardcore Floyd fan, I simply don't see this huge gap between WYWH and say Animals or Wall. Animals may not deliver the same experience as WYWH but it's just a different side of the band. A hardcore fan tends to embrace more facets of a band while a casual fan is more interested in the ones that tick all the 'must have' boxes of the genre. In Floyd's case, from a prog perspective, that album is WYWH so it's not surprising it is rated the highest. Ditto with SEBTP. It's not that I don't like the album and I have personally rated both Cryme and SEBTP the same. But I just don't see this gulf between Cryme and SEBTP; it's a different side of the band, that's all. At the same time, I do understand why non fans or casual fans would gravitate towards WYWH or SEBTP respectively and far be it for me to grudge their choice.
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lazland
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 09:23 |
Dean wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Dean wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
I always seem to poke my twig into the wrong hole and I get the scorpion sting rather than the tasty termites I had been hoping for!!!
I didn't slam DSOTM - I think (as the above reflects upon) the superlative artwork and monumental catchy name! DID lead to it's enormous popularity...but for such superficial reasons! I reckon that a lot of proggers (aside from Floyd fan-buoys bobbing about in their own particular ocean) think that in terms of the music ( I think that the lyrical content is up to the usual Floyd standard of excellent!) the recording is obviously less than the masterpiece some people claim.
I have so much more musically worthy content in my collection that it wouldn't even make my top 500!!!
But hey - if you love it, carry on spinning it dudes!!!
It could well be the seventies recording that still get played the most! and that in itself is remarkable - but such popularism is anathema to most proggers who like me are well aware that our faves are dismissed out of hand as OTT self-indulgent garbage by the same audience that love DSOTM.... |
I think you are wrong because you are looking at it retrospectively. You have no choice in this because you were not a record-buying teenager in 1973. The mass-appeal of DSotM had little to do with the minimalist cover art (other albums had that) or the cool title with "Dark" in the name (there was another album called Dark Side Of The Moon released the previous year that went nowhere even though the band in question scored a #3 single from their follow up album two months after Floyd released their DSotM). It wasn't even the result of a massive advertising promotion by EMI, because there wasn't one and in the UK it wasn't the result of radio-play or an attention-grabbing hit-single, because it had neither of those either. |
How else am I supposed to look at an album that was released in 1973? - Quick, somebody invent a fookin time machine so I can go back in time and ask some punters on the street in 1973....  |
Pre-bloody-cisely. You were not there so anything you say about how or why it became so popular can only be speculative, and in this case I believe, incorrect.
No one can actually pin-point why it became successful, as much as anything it became successful in spite of itself - (just like Tubular Bells did) it wasn't an instant "hit", it just burbled along selling well, just as Meddle had done before it (Meddle spent 80+ weeks in the UK album charts but never higher than #3).
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I think the best explanation anyone came up with is that it coincided with that time when all our parents suddenly got new hi-fi systems on the never-never. DSOTM (and Tubular Bells, for that matter) were perfect for cool hip people to show off their new super–duper decks (man).
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Chimaera
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 09:23 |
I'd never listened to any Floyd before Dark Side of the Moon until yesterday when I gave Meddle a listen. Echoes is clearly very special indeed but the rest of the album is a bit meh.
I love Animals. Probably my fave Floyd album and not overated IMO.
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Dean
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Posted: April 15 2014 at 08:23 |
M27Barney wrote:
Dean wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
I always seem to poke my twig into the wrong hole and I get the scorpion sting rather than the tasty termites I had been hoping for!!!
I didn't slam DSOTM - I think (as the above reflects upon) the superlative artwork and monumental catchy name! DID lead to it's enormous popularity...but for such superficial reasons! I reckon that a lot of proggers (aside from Floyd fan-buoys bobbing about in their own particular ocean) think that in terms of the music ( I think that the lyrical content is up to the usual Floyd standard of excellent!) the recording is obviously less than the masterpiece some people claim.
I have so much more musically worthy content in my collection that it wouldn't even make my top 500!!!
But hey - if you love it, carry on spinning it dudes!!!
It could well be the seventies recording that still get played the most! and that in itself is remarkable - but such popularism is anathema to most proggers who like me are well aware that our faves are dismissed out of hand as OTT self-indulgent garbage by the same audience that love DSOTM.... |
I think you are wrong because you are looking at it retrospectively. You have no choice in this because you were not a record-buying teenager in 1973. The mass-appeal of DSotM had little to do with the minimalist cover art (other albums had that) or the cool title with "Dark" in the name (there was another album called Dark Side Of The Moon released the previous year that went nowhere even though the band in question scored a #3 single from their follow up album two months after Floyd released their DSotM). It wasn't even the result of a massive advertising promotion by EMI, because there wasn't one and in the UK it wasn't the result of radio-play or an attention-grabbing hit-single, because it had neither of those either. |
How else am I supposed to look at an album that was released in 1973? - Quick, somebody invent a fookin time machine so I can go back in time and ask some punters on the street in 1973.... |
Pre-bloody-cisely. You were not there so anything you say about how or why it became so popular can only be speculative, and in this case I believe, incorrect.
No one can actually pin-point why it became successful, as much as anything it became successful in spite of itself - (just like Tubular Bells did) it wasn't an instant "hit", it just burbled along selling well, just as Meddle had done before it (Meddle spent 80+ weeks in the UK album charts but never higher than #3).
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What?
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Damn Animals with Pink Floyd is overrated!
