Losing interest in prog

I'm very fond of South American Indian pan flute music, these little groups have a very nice & buoyant vibe!  We have them on the streets of Chicago, and I once saw a small group performing the same songs in Exeter, Devon UK!  

rogerthat wrote: centum wrote: Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals? I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff more or less the same with jazz and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with... oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire Rock/pop kind of singing in classical would be nice but I'd much rather instrumental than operatic vocals, I can't take full on operatic singing.  As for drums, I think the lack of it is very important to keep the nuances of classical music intact.  Often times, I have noticed that live performances start sounding loud and louder and the soft textures disappear.  The main reason for that is once you have drums, everybody has to play louder to be heard over it unless the sound is properly mixed.  Without drums, the true contours of a piece is more evident.  It is not immediately grabbing, either, but you can't have everything.

In classical music, i find for me the instrumental music is the most deep experience there is-A Bruckner symphony can "sing" or kick-ass more than any singer could ever dream to!

centum wrote: Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals? I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff more or less the same with jazz and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with... oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire

Rock/pop kind of singing in classical would be nice but I'd much rather instrumental than operatic vocals, I can't take full on operatic singing.  As for drums, I think the lack of it is very important to keep the nuances of classical music intact.  Often times, I have noticed that live performances start sounding loud and louder and the soft textures disappear.  The main reason for that is once you have drums, everybody has to play louder to be heard over it unless the sound is properly mixed.  Without drums, the true contours of a piece is more evident.  It is not immediately grabbing, either, but you can't have everything. 

Guys, tell me, don't you wish classical music had vocals? Not like operatic vocals but real kick-ass vocals?

I had a moment last month when I had a huge boner on classical music and my girlfriend helped me with that (I understood the ambiguity only afrer I wrote the sentence) - she suggested Ludwig van's IX-th and Scriabin's Prometheus and I gotta say, that's really good music but it's just no fun, it seems to me to be a kind of (don't punch me too hard) half-music. I'd really love drums to be there, I'd really love at least some vocals, maybe some samples and stuff

more or less the same with jazz

and don't get me wrong, I really like instrumental music, some time ago it was the kind of music with vocals that I had problems with...

oh, one more thing, my professor of media theory said that the vocals always were essential for music since music was always viewed as a means of communication and that just added fuel to the fire

wilmon91 wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Jazz and classical music  are much more interesting, in my opinion.. There is so much music to discover which expands my mind more than prog BaldFriede wrote: so-called "new" prog albums which are more or less just an endless repetition of what has already been said. BaldFriede wrote: I hate the way albums are being produced these days; they all sound extremely sterile. Each instrument clearly separated from the other.    BaldFriede wrote: It does not bring anything better across if all instruments are strictly separated; it just sounds more sterile.   Too generalizing. "Endless repetition of what has already been said"? Well, that goes for most jazz too. Most jazz is just too boring for me. Structurally it is often similar, and all those solo parts is boring, especially acoustic bass solos. Who likes an acoustic bass solo? A lot of jazz seems like just a game for the musicians. You keep track of the chord structure and play many notes within scales. Jazz is boring!   Okay, you might be missing out on something in Jazz. The great universal Jazz musicians placed great emphasis on melody and also improvising with a melodic style and not always constantly attempting to play 20 thirty second notes in 2 seconds. You can discover this when listening to Aretha Franklin improvise Blues in a Jazz style live in a small club backed by jazz musicians in 1964 from "Aretha sings the Blues". Her phrasing Not only sounds like a trumpet, but the sound and body of Miles Davis. If you were to then trace back and listen to Weather Report's Mysterious Traveler , you would also hear a connection to a melodic style in Wayne Shorter's playing.   A lot of jazz seems like just a game for the musicians? It's very gymnastic and requires long hours of devotion. If you're a great universal player you won't be falling into this trap. A lot of the great Jazz musicians will listen to other styles of music such as African, traditional Japanese from the 14th century, 20th century Classical..etc. It's more like the ego boosters you're making reference to. The ones who play a game with Jazz. They get stuck in this ego fast playing groove and hardly expand in music for years. Keeping track of the chord structure is questionable in the music of Coltrane and Miles Davis. Sometimes there is hardly a chord structure at all and is all about expanding through spiritual playing.     Regarding instruments separated from each other... well that recording tecnique was very common in the seventies too. Sometimes it can be a bad thing, sometimes not. For example, I don't like the sound of the drums on Camels Moonmadness, as well as Nude. The drums are probably recorded in a very small room with no room ambience. Mirage sound way better. A lot of music involving studio musicians at the end of the 70s and beginning of the 80s also had a more or less stiffness to it were the instruments sound separated. Steely Dan is just an example. It can be too clinical. Today the sound is generally more crisp and clear. But you can record in any way you want.  Interesting.   But I mean, there are examples of good music which is recorded one instrument at a time, and still can sound very nice, without being too clinical. But recording live without metronome click is probably an undervalued and underestimated way. It is harder and more difficult to edit afterwards though, cutting up and modifying things.

DavetheSlave wrote: is it technically beyond what Lady Gaga and her ilk do?

pretty sure lady gaga can sing better than anyone from your favourite 70s bands.

Dream Theater

lol, you don't seriously consider these clowns to be high art, do you?

Music, to me is an art form, not a commercial goldmine...

it can be both. i'd rather be a rich artist than a starving artist. fame and fortune does not necessarily imply sacrifice of artistic integrity. art can be divine, art can be used for healing, and it can also be created for entertainment. there is no value hierarchy here.

i started enjoying music a lot more when i stopped believing in "prog" (there's no such thing as progressive music) and realized that there is a world of craft and artistry all around us. different music is appropriate for different moods, different environments, and different people.

to the rest of the topic:

if you're sick of the music that this site considers worthy of induction into the prog category, why don't you try anything but what's here?

have you ever been to a rave? i recommend it; electronic music has the ability to unlock primal parts of you that you might not have known existed, if you commit yourself to it and move with it as it moves you. note that this is not music designed for idle listening, but for dancing.

also, consider some hip-hop. saul williams is as progressive as anything here. he is an artist and craftsman of the highest calibre. start with "amethyst rock star" and go from there.

since "classical" was mentioned, i'll recommend the keyboard sonatas of domenico scarlatti; "prog baroque," if you will.

it always makes me chuckle when someone with the musical maturity of a 17 year old goes on a tirade against pop music and uses some douche-metal circle jerkers like Dream Theater as an example of "real" music.

I think that I define prog differently to what PA does in that, to me, Prog is music that is removed from the simple structure that pop music generally has. As a rule I can't stand the jingle like sound of most radio popular hit parade music. To me music that is intelligent is prog. The argument that a new prog band clones an older act doesn't worry me - what does worry me is - is the music intelligent? does it have melody? is it technically beyond what Lady Gaga and her ilk do? Does it appeal to me?

Slartibartfast wrote: After losing interest in prog where should you go?  Classical and contemporary prog?  Contemporary,  Classical, Jazz??   Metal??? Country and Western??

octopus-4 wrote: tdfloyd wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: After losing interest in prog where should you go?  Classical and contemporary prog?  Contemporary,  Classical, Jazz??   Metal??? Country and Western?? Classical.  I kind of left prog for a couple of months now and I'm listening to mainly to classical.  Its mostly new to me, kind of like prog was 30 years ago.  Of course I'll come back to it in the future With a nickname like yours, classical is the natural next step. I went to classical years ago thanks to Floyd and ELP and I've never stopped since then.

Yeah, classical music is a winner, a long term winner-i have been listening to it on and off for over 25 years, and have not regretted a minute!

tdfloyd wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: After losing interest in prog where should you go?  Classical and contemporary prog?  Contemporary,  Classical, Jazz??   Metal??? Country and Western?? Classical.  I kind of left prog for a couple of months now and I'm listening to mainly to classical.  Its mostly new to me, kind of like prog was 30 years ago.  Of course I'll come back to it in the future