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The T 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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 Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:38 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
You seem pretty comfortable making absolute statements about how bad this change is though...  |
Statements backed up by reason rather than being an empty platitude though, |
Reason that is theoretical at most.... |
As opposed to yours?
My plan makes good economic and moral sense to me. The changes are massive downgrades in both categories. |
Your plan (what IS your plan anyway?) might make economical sense from your perspective but little moral sense from my point of view.
The changes are upgrades, specially in the latter category.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:38 |
The T wrote:
You always do this like if you were correcting a test by one of your students, don't you Robert? All that's left is for you to start assigning grades to posts... 
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I was never this hard on my students! 
I actually approach this as my new job would dictate- quality control for a directory assistance / information company! 
I'm so hardcore. 
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:37 |
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^ Uh...the for-profit health-care system Rob. Tried it. It sucks. Leaves lots without the care they need, etc., etc., etc.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:36 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
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By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that. |
Where does this negativity come from? What "other systems" has the US "tried for years" that "failed[?]" I think the way things are here has been a huge success overall, but just that there are things we could certainly improve upon.
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I certainly don't see this system as anything close to a success... A success would not need be changed... |
Doesn't address the question. Question in bold. Ignore my opinion that follows the question if you must.
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Oh... Yes, the system where the insurance companies run the show. The for-profit system. Not that it has dramatically changed with the new bill but it is a start. |
Those two things in bold there? Yeah, they are not the same thing, and neither represents our situation at all.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:34 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
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By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that. |
Where does this negativity come from? What "other systems" has the US "tried for years" that "failed[?]" I think the way things are here has been a huge success overall, but just that there are things we could certainly improve upon.
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I certainly don't see this system as anything close to a success... A success would not need be changed... |
Doesn't address the question. Question in bold. Ignore my opinion that follows the question if you must.
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Oh... Yes, the system where the insurance companies run the show. The for-profit system. Not that it has dramatically changed with the new bill but it is a start.
You always do this like if you were correcting a test by one of your students, don't you Robert? All that's left is for you to start assigning grades to posts...
Edited by The T - April 05 2010 at 18:36
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:33 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
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By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that. |
Where does this negativity come from? What "other systems" has the US "tried for years" that "failed[?]" I think the way things are here has been a huge success overall, but just that there are things we could certainly improve upon.
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I certainly don't see this system as anything close to a success... A success would not need be changed... |
Doesn't address the question. Question in bold. Ignore my opinion that follows the question if you must.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:31 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
You seem pretty comfortable making absolute statements about how bad this change is though... |
Statements backed up by reason rather than being an empty platitude though, |
Reason that is theoretical at most.... |
As opposed to yours?
My plan makes good economic and moral sense to me. The changes are massive downgrades in both categories.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:29 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
|
By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that. |
Where does this negativity come from? What "other systems" has the US "tried for years" that "failed[?]" I think the way things are here has been a huge success overall, but just that there are things we could certainly improve upon.
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I certainly don't see this system as anything close to a success... A success would not need be changed...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:28 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
You seem pretty comfortable making absolute statements about how bad this change is though... |
Statements backed up by reason rather than being an empty platitude though, |
Reason that is theoretical at most....
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:25 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
You seem pretty comfortable making absolute statements about how bad this change is though... |
Statements backed up by reason rather than being an empty platitude though,
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:23 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
When my pennies and nickels buy me a beer, change is good.
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It will never happen. With the current model, in a few years you'll have to use a 20 dollar bill to buy a Budweiser... and LIGHT to make matters worse...  |
Of course! With the current model, we'll be making $492 an hour minimum wage so that Bud Light has to be $20.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:21 |
The T wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
|
By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that. |
Where does this negativity come from? What "other systems" has the US "tried for years" that "failed[?]" I think the way things are here has been a huge success overall, but just that there are things we could certainly improve upon.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:20 |
Epignosis wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
When my pennies and nickels buy me a beer, change is good.
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It will never happen. With the current model, in a few years you'll have to use a 20 dollar bill to buy a Budweiser... and LIGHT to make matters worse...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:19 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
You seem pretty comfortable making absolute statements about how bad this change is though...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:18 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement. |
When my pennies and nickels buy me a beer, change is good.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:18 |
Epignosis wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
|
By trying it. The US tried the other system for years. It failed. By wanting it to succeed instead of desiring its total failure, which would also mean further damage to everyday Americans.
There's no way of telling. For every one who thinks this plan stinks, there's another person that thinks it IS going in the right direction. The ones who think it stinks had their chance. Now it's the other one's. As simple as that.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:17 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
|
Your point? You can't just say change is good as an absolute statement.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:13 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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And how do you prove if something like this is the right direction or not?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:09 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
^We certainly agree on that. But the way people object the change would give the idea that people LOVED it... Come on, some change is better then nothing with the way things were... Let's hope for the best. |
Not if its change in the wrong direction. |
It hasn't been proved to be in the wrong direction. That's your theory (and many other people's, I'm not denying that).
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 05 2010 at 18:08 |
The T wrote:
^Exactly. I'm talking about Scandinavia, Europe in general... I never really proposed North Korea like the example to follow.... Don't compare health care to "throwing people in prison for subversive speech"... YOU making a reductio ad absurdum fallacy (almost... You just missed the "Hitler comparison" part)?
Again, why the US has to ALWAYS be different from the rest of the world I don't get... In some ways yes, in the GOOD ways... |
And I see this as a good way. What is so hard to grasp about that?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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