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Topic ClosedDo foreign vocalists ruin your prog experience?

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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:59
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Gargantua sing in Polish and have brilliant lyrics. You'll have to take my word for it, though - they're completely untranslatable as they rely on heavy wordplay. Another reason for singing in your native language, it gives you so much more capacity for expression!



Same could be said for Battiato's lyrics, which rely also on puns and quotations from various Italian cultural sources. They can be masterpieces of nonsense, but unfortunately only native speakers of Italian, or people who are very proficient in the language, can appreciate them fully.


*breaks the #4 micky law of PA's*

CryCry  I know.. he is the one artist I really do regret not understanding.. good thing I LOVE his music as I do. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:58
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Gargantua sing in Polish and have brilliant lyrics. You'll have to take my word for it, though - they're completely untranslatable as they rely on heavy wordplay. Another reason for singing in your native language, it gives you so much more capacity for expression!



Same could be said for Battiato's lyrics, which rely also on puns and quotations from various Italian cultural sources. They can be masterpieces of nonsense, but unfortunately only native speakers of Italian, or people who are very proficient in the language, can appreciate them fully.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:56
Gargantua sing in Polish and have brilliant lyrics. You'll have to take my word for it, though - they're completely untranslatable as they rely on heavy wordplay. Another reason for singing in your native language, it gives you so much more capacity for expression!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:54
Guys, let's face it... With very few exceptions, rock lyrics are nothing to write home about. They are songs, not literature - if one wants to read a novel or a poem, they'll get a book, not a CD. Opera is held in much higher regard than any subgenre of rock (including prog), but I can assure you that in most cases the librettos are quite ridiculous, not to mention bombastic. However, they suit the music and the singing stye to a T, and no one expects Shakespeare or Dante.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:47
Originally posted by cuncuna cuncuna wrote:

  Anyway, with the english I can manage, I've noticed that many lyrics are not Nobel prize material.


and the foreign stuff is not much better....  I know I packaged it in a backhanded swipe at Rush but lets face it.. with some noteable sexcetions Prog lyrics were not anything to write home about. Take the Italian stuff... again.. with some exceptions of course, it dealt with some pretty out there ideas of utopia, brotherhood, and sh*t like that.  At least as I am coming to learn. I'll pass on that stuff ... just give me the way they sing.. it isn't for everyone as Mike found out. But man alive is it distinctive .. and a reason Italian prog is often set aside by itself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:38
Who cares as long as the music is good? Personally, I think it's cool when artists decide to sing in their native tongue.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 13:04
Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:

Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Originally posted by ES335 ES335 wrote:


 

The level of ignorance evident in this post is just appaling. Have you even noticed that a sizeable percentage of the posters on this site are not from the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland or Australia? Given the demographics of the site, one would think that by "foreign" you mean "alien" as in from another planet.
Well, this is how us foreigners are called by the US authorities when we seek to immigrate there... The spouse of a US citizen is called an 'alien relative'.... Which means that, in a way, we really are from another planet.

 

That's why I defined alien as from another planet. Here in the US we called illegal immigrants illegal aliens (I can't remeber if it is 80's Genesis or solo Phil Collins with the song of that title) so I extended the definition to avoid confusion.

 

Why would you want to move here? I've been to Italy, it's better in almost every way.


Talking about avoiding confusion, México is also a federal "US" located in the northern hemisphere of America. So...

Uhm... what ruins things for me most of the times is not having an accurate conceptual translation of lyrics. Many beautiful things are said in certain songs (also, a lot of crap is included in otehr ocassions), and the chance to fully understand the meaning of lyrics along with the music that's beneath it is rather away from me. That's a really bad thing, since the full effect of most albums is simply away from my reach. Anyway, with the english I can manage, I've noticed that many lyrics are not Nobel prize material.
¡Beware of the Bee!
   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 12:47
^ Nah, that's no invasion, just poor lyrics
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 12:44
liking the mars volta, i couldn't give a flying about foreign vocals LOL for me i focus moreso on melody than lyrics, so i'm not fussed. unless they are trying to get me to change religion *cough* christian rock *cough*. that's invasion of freewill.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 11:23
Focus recorded only one track in Dutch. I wish they could have done versions of Black Beauty or Moving Waves in Dutch. Thijs has even done vocals in latin.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 11:19
What do you exactly mean with foreign? I'm dutch and there's no single prog band in Holland that sings in dutch. So you can't complain about that! But Prog can be sung in many different languages. Sometimes you can hear an accent, so what? Be glad they make Prog! Next time, don't be so ignorant.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 11:12
I was delighted when Céline Dion started singing in English so the whole world could suffer along with us here in Québec when we go to a shopping mall, music store, hockey game you name it. I can`t wait for her French cover of Close To The Edge.

Seriously ( really ) I`m suprised nobody has mentioned the Hungarian band Omega who have recorded in Hungarian English and German. Some of their English language material is difficult to understand but they do a better job in German. Oddly, for the most part I prefer the Hungarian recordings because it sort of adds further mystique to their music which has a lot of imagery if one bothers to try and understand them. They don`t always mirror the English recordings. Fortunately I have a Hungarian friend who is into the band as well.

As for other languages besides French and German which I speak, I don`t care if they`re singing in Klingon as long as I like the music. Some music sung by English singers in English is almost impossible tro understand anyway. I was listening to Rob Zombie in the record store the other day and he might as well have been singing in Swahili.




Edited by Vibrationbaby - December 17 2007 at 13:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 10:53
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

Hummmm... "English" is foreign for me... what about "non-English"?


English is foreign to me too..

I was educated in the south.... *cymbal crash*
 
Many eons ago, when I was on vacation in the south with my parents, I bought a joke "translator" book which converted southern speak into English.     There really is some truth to that statement. Wink 
 
I am sure that American English is also foreign to British English and vice versa.  I am not sure how close Australian English is to British English, but I know that I have heard some conversations from Australians where I was left shaking my head saying "I know that they were speaking English, but I have no clue what was just said".  But generally, they are transferable. 
 
If I am lucky I might be able to carry on a conversation in Spanish with a toddler, but even then the toddler would probably speak circles around me.  I had 2 years of Spanish in high school and 1 year in college but the erosion of the years and lack of use have taken their toll.  I recall many nouns and numbers and verbs, but when it comes to tenses on the verbs I am mostly a lost cause. 
 
I can appreciate the beauty of a song for its sound and the voice as an instrument, but it still loses something for me not understanding what is being said.  Again, I admit that it is my loss, and it is certainly not a criticism of the musicians that are performing in their native languages. 
 
I also agree with a previous statement that even with songs in English, you can't understand much of what is being sung without the lyric sheet in front of you, but at least in those (many) instances I can pull out the lyric sheet and follow along. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 10:11
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!


and just found a new rival  for Genesis  in the pantheon of the Big Mick's  insomnia cure's hahahhaha.  Just had a nice nap after those samples.   LOL  On topic though... loved the singing.. .the music ...   very sedate.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 09:06
I have to admit I prefer songs sung in their native language, regardless of what that language should be. Each language has it's own natural rhythm, tempo and pace that the singer instinctively knows and feels, so can use it to express emotions far more effectively than if they were singing in a non-native language. "Made-up" languages like Hopelandish, Kobaïan and Loxian emphasise this relationship between natural rhythm and the music even more by carrying no meaning withing the lyric and everything within the sounds that are being made.
 
The same is true in a way for male and female vocalists - they have unique differences (aside from just pitch) that mean that they are not interchangable and will suit some styles of music better than others. I believe that is part of the reason why so many male singers sing like women, adapting their voices to fit the music.
 
The PFM example Iván gave I do not believe is solely the fault of Pete Sinfield, but a combination of him not appreciating the unique rhythm of the original Italian lyrics and Flavio Premoli singing the songs phonetically without expressing the emotion of the lyric. Personnaly, I think Peter Hammill faired better with Le Orme and I like both versions of Felona e Sorona equally.
 
One thing that use to annoy me was English people singing in American accents, which is probably why I favour Gabriel and Gilmour as singers. A few years back I got into a heated argument during a recording session with a singer who sang "bin" instead of "been" - for some reason it irritated the hell out of me and I couldn't get past that to actually enjoy the song untill I noticed her speaking in a bar one evening and realised that's how she speaks. After that I just accepted that she would naturally sing that way and the problem was not with her diction, but with my preception.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:46
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Well, that would be more like the language of extreme metalLOL....


No, the language of extreme metal is the language of beer and make-up.

Seriously, a bunch of Vikings running straight at you, while terrifying, is nowehere near as disturbing as a bunch of Vikings running at you singing Sigur Ros songs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:44
Well, that would be more like the language of extreme metalLOL....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:42
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!


Yep, the monastery-burning language of prog, carnage, pillage and rape
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:40
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Here you go:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1566

And BTW, as a Kobaian expat in Poland I demand that Vander and co. stop sullying my language with their dreadful pronunciation and piss-poor vocabulary, and sing their stuff in French.


no... badly accented English please LOL

checking it those samples.. have alwys meant to... but then end up heading down some other path between here and there hahahha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:40
What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!
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