Boston???

thanks!   I love clappies 

sircosick wrote: Referring to Iván's last post, Ghost of Morphy spotted some characteristic that Boston has in common with prog. Iván proved one by one that they're somehow wrong, but what if Boston has all those things together??

  and you have shown more insight then any of the crap thrown about in this thread.

here's some more for you...

it is something the some people here don't understand..... it's a notion called subjective analysis....music is not absolute...  what you  see... is simply is what you  see... and what others see is what they see.  There is no set guidelines for what is prog or not.. or ...God forbid ... Prog-Related .  We all see this stuff differently. Thankfully this site is a COLLABORATIVE site.... and people here understand that  others will interpret music... and prog...  and such things as prog quotient differently.

The problems happen when....

some people here get it ^ ... understand that and work together...

and some don't and think they speak in absolutes and refuse to see that others might see things differently. 

a case in point.

I was highly troubled to see that groups that others think are prog..were going to be moved to non-prog categories.. just because someone else comes along later and doesn't think so.  Thankfully I see the Admins put a big damn stop sign to that.  That smacked of a big lack of respect for the others that work here... and have contributed to the site. That smacks of one saying.. I know  prog... and you don't.  That is not how a collaborative site works.

So Jorge....   that is where we are left...Ivan makes good points.. and Morphy  makes good points.... now the jury weighs in as it should. 


Edited by micky - November 12 2007 at 20:07

PorgArchives seems to be inclusive until adding representative bands of their respective genres like Radiohead (from the alternative scene), Deep Purple -and more recently Black Sabbath- from the Classic Rock scene; the representative of the AOR scene would be, in this case, Styx. But that's just an impression, considerin' that the first couple of Boston releases are quintessential stuff in the general rock scene.....

Now, don't get me wrong; by my very own, I'd never start a thread promoting the addition of Boston, but since they're mentioned, why not discuss them? They're one of the cornerstones of AOR, and that implies something. We all agree that they didn't influenced prog bands; but the issue in question is if they certainly were influenced by some prog..... For me, there's not a clear-as-water answer for that, as Iván has been stating all along this thread, since music is not so easy and "standard" to label in......
I find 'em very similar to Kansas (a band that, in fact, has always flirted with Arena Rock) and tracks such Foreplay/Long Time, Smokin' and The Journey sounds fairly proggish to my perception.......

Iván has certainly a plus for writing the definition of PR, but isn't he a bit extremist by saying that Boston has equally chances to be added as Journey, Toto or even Europe? Excuse me, but Toto is mainly a pop band who emerged several years after Boston and Europe is simply hair metal...... so, let's not deny either some merit by Boston. IMHO.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: ghost_of_morphy wrote:   Skipping all of the other obtuseness, this is extremely clear.   Boston received clear musical influence from this genre, which has been thoroughly documented, and which I cited in my original post.   The "or" in the above thread is  a conjunction that signifies that if one of the conditions (such as the one mentioned above) is true, then the statement is true regardless of the other conditions.  Boston received clear musical influence, hence Boston is prog-related.   If you support the definition you cite, you support Boston's inclusion.   And yet you still persist in your obtuse insistance that to be prog-related something must sound like prog.  That's silly.  What sounds like prog IS prog!!!!  Not prog-related, prog!!!!  If you don't like the sound of Boston, that's fine, but don't pretend that you are following the definition instead of your whims and preferences.   Seems the only obtuse are you, I don't believe Boston received Prog influence,Boston is AOR = Classic Rock + POP, as simple as that.   I don't say a band must sound like Prog to be prog Related (PLEASE QUOTE ME), that's what you add because of your lack of understanding, A BAND MUST BLEND AT LEAST SOME PROG ELEMENTS....BOSTON DOESN'T BLEND THEM....AS CLEAR AS WATER, NOT ONLY FOR ME BUT FOR THE HUGE MAJORITY OF THIS FORUM MEMBERS.   But who cares, probably they will be added and each time our identity will be more lost.   Iván   BTW: Don't try to teach me to uinderstand the definition of Prog Relater, I WROTE IT!!!!!

Edited by ghost_of_morphy - November 12 2007 at 17:14

Raise those fists and say YEAH!!!!!

Certif1ed wrote: Easy Livin wrote: Ivan, I was not suggesting for a minute that you had misunderstood the poll question!   Looks however like you may not be reading mine though. I said "bring in people who would be interested in prog".   I don't think that Boston would necessarily bring in people who would be interested in Prog - I think it would be more likely that people interested in Prog would become acquainted with Boston's music.   To my mind, only "Long Time" on their first album is even Prog-Related.   The rest is Smokin' classic rock - great stuff, but not related to the stuff we listen to here!

The Doctor wrote: micky wrote: well Bob if the admin hat is on.... lets cut the crap about trying to tell you all what PR is about and discuss Boston... I think everyone with half a head would agree that they fit in PR...  but the question is...  should they be inducted.   Is the policy is to be ALL prog-related groups... or the select ones that have some special relation to prog.  I thought we on the XOver team had the finest line to walk.. we got nothin... on you all hahahha.  Just what are YOUR thoughts, since the admin hat is off, on PR addtions.  All... or select ones.  Targeted to the site.. or a sense of completeness.   Just let me know when I can start flinging my own .... at my PC monitor.    But seriously...(sorry for the Phil Collins reference)...I've sort of changed my opinion on the whole PR thing in the last few months.  If we're going to have a policy of inclusiveness, I think any band which sensibly could be considered as PR should be inducted.  If the idea is to expand the scope of the site, then the criteria should be along the lines of what Bob said earlier about will it attract people to the site who might enjoy prog...and also, would it be something that prog fans would find value in.  I see no problem in having a PR section that is inclusive as long as it remains distinctly identified as non-prog.

I have never cared for PR to be honest.... but if we have it... you might as well do it right.  And for all the tales of the site losing crediblity and sh*t like that... this site is the same site that it was before Sabbath was included .... Zeppelin was included.  I didn't agree with any of those.. .but you know...who really cares. I am not a mission to purify PA's .. only make my corner of it  the best I can for the users here.  The whole mission here is to serve the site users.  And if these kinds of addtions help the site and bring new people in... I'll surpress my damned prog sensiblitiies to realize that this site isn't about me .. or my ideas... but about the users.. and bringing new ones in...so we can hook them with the 'good' stuff.

micky wrote: well Bob if the admin hat is on.... lets cut the crap about trying to tell you all what PR is about and discuss Boston... I think everyone with half a head would agree that they fit in PR...  but the question is...  should they be inducted.   Is the policy is to be ALL prog-related groups... or the select ones that have some special relation to prog.  I thought we on the XOver team had the finest line to walk.. we got nothin... on you all hahahha.  Just what are YOUR thoughts, since the admin hat is off, on PR addtions.  All... or select ones.  Targeted to the site.. or a sense of completeness.

Personally, I agree with Ghost of Morphy that at the very least Boston is Prog-related.  When I saw them live a few years ago I couldn't believe how progressive they sounded to me. 

well Bob if the admin hat is on.... lets cut the crap about trying to tell you all what PR is about and discuss Boston...

I think everyone with half a head would agree that they fit in PR...  but the question is...  should they be inducted.   Is the policy is to be ALL prog-related groups... or the select ones that have some special relation to prog.  I thought we on the XOver team had the finest line to walk.. we got nothin... on you all hahahha.  Just what are YOUR thoughts, since the admin hat is off, on PR addtions.  All... or select ones.  Targeted to the site.. or a sense of completeness.