Political discussion thread

dtguitarfan wrote: Oh, there's plenty of them...but this is the most churched city in America, so there are plenty of non-Christian catering companies, but they all THINK they're Christian....

dtguitarfan wrote: JJLehto wrote: Dude, you are angry, kinda vengeful and want everyone to live like you do. Ok, fine - I'm angry that people around me can't see through their hate and fear to the fact that they've dehumanized groups of people.  I'm angry when I hear that for the local Pride festival here, they couldn't get a catering company to agree to sell them food because companies were saying it went against their religion.  REALLY?  You think when Jesus fed the 5,000 that he made sure all of them were perfect followers of the Jewish law first?  Yeah, I'm angry, and I want these people to get a good, hard smack in the face so they'll wake up.  I want them to stop driving people away from Jesus, who taught us to love our enemies.  I want them to lose so badly that they can't deny reality any more.  I'm angry when I remember how in my youth I was taught that Homosexuals chose their lifestyle, and then remember my friend begging me to come back to church because he needed someone who knew his horrible secret and accepted him anyways, since he felt he couldn't share this secret with anyone else.  Yeah.  I'm angry.

I think there is a difference between your examples; a catering company that  provided food to a gay pride event would give the appearance of endorsing the festival, while if some of the 5000 that Jesus fed happened to be homosexual, he wouldn't have been endorsing or appearing to endorse homosexuality at all.  Same goes for employing someone who is gay, servinghim at a restaurant, or having him stay at a hotel; to fire that person or kick them out of the hotel, in my opinion, should be illegal and punishable by law, same as racial/sexual discrimination.  But with the catering company, there's an issue of conscience at stake.  Should a Muslim company be forced to cater to a Christian revival?  I don't think so, and neither do I think that a Christian company should be forced to cater to a gay pride event if that goes against the conscience of the owner of the company.

I do agree with you, though, that Christians often tend to treat homosexuals very unfairly.  Telling people untruths such as the idea that homosexuality is a choice (it can be but definitely not in all circumstances) and that they have to change their sexual orientation to be saved is just going to drive them away from the church.  They might as well tell heterosexuals that they have to get rid of all impure sexual thoughts to be saved.  I will be the first to admit that I struggle with this, but I strive to overcome my sinful desires and to find joy in Christ alone.  If churches really take what the Bible says about sin, grace, and salvation seriously, their attitude toward homosexual desires should be no different.

thellama73 wrote: As the film Nurse Betty teaches us, that's not stupidity, that's ignorance. Two very different things.

thellama73 wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: I'm angry when I hear that for the local Pride festival here, they couldn't get a catering company to agree to sell them food because companies were saying it went against their religion.  REALLY? There are no non-Christian catering companies where you live? I find that very hard to believe.

Oh, there's plenty of them...but this is the most churched city in America, so there are plenty of non-Christian catering companies, but they all THINK they're Christian....

dtguitarfan wrote: I'm angry when I hear that for the local Pride festival here, they couldn't get a catering company to agree to sell them food because companies were saying it went against their religion.  REALLY?

There are no non-Christian catering companies where you live? I find that very hard to believe.

Anyway, did it occur to you that they may not have been objecting to the homosexuality so much as the pride? Pride, after all, is the worst of the seven deadly sins, for it is what caused Lucifer to fall.

JJLehto wrote: Dude, you are angry, kinda vengeful and want everyone to live like you do.

Ok, fine - I'm angry that people around me can't see through their hate and fear to the fact that they've dehumanized groups of people.  I'm angry when I hear that for the local Pride festival here, they couldn't get a catering company to agree to sell them food because companies were saying it went against their religion.  REALLY?  You think when Jesus fed the 5,000 that he made sure all of them were perfect followers of the Jewish law first?  Yeah, I'm angry, and I want these people to get a good, hard smack in the face so they'll wake up.  I want them to stop driving people away from Jesus, who taught us to love our enemies.  I want them to lose so badly that they can't deny reality any more.  I'm angry when I remember how in my youth I was taught that Homosexuals chose their lifestyle, and then remember my friend begging me to come back to church because he needed someone who knew his horrible secret and accepted him anyways, since he felt he couldn't share this secret with anyone else.  Yeah.  I'm angry.

I would argue that the members of congress are pretty stupid as a whole. I would much rather let every idiot make his own mistakes than let a few idiots make mistakes that affect everyone.

Geoff: "the American people are pretty stupid as a whole".

So he wants an intellectual elite deciding about the millions of every day issue that even the simplest of simpletons can be more apt to decide upon than a far away genius in Washington. Typical intellectual-moral superiority that is the root behind calls for a gigantic government.

Finnforest wrote: JJLehto wrote: The GOP could just actually support what they pretend to.... That would win over lots of people I think. ^Quote of the week, and right on. Geoff is so misreading things in how he believes the country is now permanently blue.  Once the GOP realizes they need to take JJ's advice, plus drop some of their social planks that young people reject, they'll find that the country is more than willing to give them another look....then, if they find a way to bring young Libertarians back to the party, look out.  They have their work cut out for sure, this will all be a delicate act to pull off.  But it can be done.  Regardless of what the media wants you to believe, this election was not a blowout.  A few points in a few key states and the R's could have won with a less than amazing candidate.  If they manage to actually nominate someone younger, a better communicator, who can articulate and appeal more to the throngs of non-liberals who would not support Romney, like JJ, Rob, etc, they can win. So keep on thinking pendulums never swing back Geoff, I'm looking forward to your reaction one cold day in the future

I doubt if I will vote for another Republican for president, but I've got my eye on young Senator Mike Lee. If he ever runs, he'll have my full support.

Finnforest wrote: JJLehto wrote: The GOP could just actually support what they pretend to.... That would win over lots of people I think. ^Quote of the week, and right on. Geoff is so misreading things in how he believes the country is now permanently blue.  Once the GOP realizes they need to take JJ's advice, plus drop some of their social planks that young people reject, they'll find that the country is more than willing to give them another look....then, if they find a way to bring young Libertarians back to the party, look out.  They have their work cut out for sure, this will all be a delicate act to pull off.  But it can be done.  Regardless of what the media wants you to believe, this election was not a blowout.  A few points in a few key states and the R's could have won with a less than amazing candidate.  If they manage to actually nominate someone younger, a better communicator, who can articulate and appeal more to the throngs of non-liberals who would not support Romney, like JJ, Rob, etc, they can win. So keep on thinking pendulums never swing back Geoff, I'm looking forward to your reaction one cold day in the future

Thank you sir.
Indeed, youth seem to be strong supporters of Paul and why not? We under 25 have the bleakest life of all to look forward to.
Good point about the swinging. 1964 many thought the Republican party was done. Legit, they could not recover and were doomed. 16 years later...
There may be fundamental changes slowly happening to our country like views on gay rights, abortion, etc IMO very good changes but government needs to be reeled in, and that is something everyone can relate to.

Look at NJ. Very socially, and overall economically, liberal state. Christie is still very popular though. My county is a heavily democratic one and even it went for him. It was the first time I ever voted for a Republican. Why? Politics be damned, the state is f**ked up and we need to try and fix it. Dems keep blindly going on the same unchanging platform here, and people dont wanna hear it! They had the nerve to come to our house and say in these tough times its unfair for teachers to pay into their pensions, in fact we should pay more for them!
I sympathize dearly, but we fight to make ends meet ourselves. We're very taxed and regulated but Dems here want more? With 9% unemployment in NJ? They wont cut property taxes that choke the middle class? Talk about being stubborn and unwilling to change...


Edited by JJLehto - January 26 2013 at 14:51