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TRoTZ 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 25 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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 Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:28 |
 stonebeard wrote:
TRoTZ wrote:
Stonebeard, What I wanted to say was "shouldn't progressive be really progressive, as the word says?" |
Well, yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I wasn't getting up in a mess because of the grammar, but rather the repeated notion that progressive has to be something new. Yeah, that's what the word literally means and that's what it was applied to prog acts of the 60s and 70s, but music has covered such a wide ground since then, I have no idea to what music possibly could progress to next. To me, endlessly combining two or however many sperate genres together (for a ficticious example: hip-hop, long songs, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum) does not equal prog. To me, prog is only an adjective that describes certain apects of the music, with nothing related to a "forward-thinking" outlook on music. |
Yes, I agree mostly with you Stonebeard, though I have a more "forward-thinking" about prog. Don't get me wrong. I only see that, many times, people praise to much these albuns. I'm not criticizing its existence. In fact, they are quite untertaining, though I still think that, accepting it can be questionable, Flower Kings don't give the necessary deepness to music. And so, for not being neither original neither feeled, for much great compositions the album has it still lacks almost all.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:27 |
Drew wrote:
Im pretty sure I speak for many FK fans here- how can you not at least give it 2 stars? (which is for fans of that band ONLY) I would like you to find some others who like the FK- but do not like Paradox Hotel. Your out of your friggin' mind.  |
That's exactly the point - 2 stars stands for collectors/fans only... compared to the other TFK albums and all modern symphonic prog that's an excellent album, which I;m sure fans of the band and the genre will like. There are very few one-star albums(I don't have a single one-star review), and Paradox Hotel just isn't one.
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:26 |
The Wizard wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Not plagiarized, but this sentence shows your bias:
"The biggest problem with the album is not the endless references to classic prog we have all heard, it's that it's simply a bad album." |
Exactly. I'm not saying the albums problem is not it's 'plagarism' but it's poor quality. |
But you fail to show the poor quality. You just talk about its a failure.
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:24 |
Bluesaga wrote:
The Miracle wrote:
Bluesaga wrote:
I don't understand how any open-minded fan of Progressive Rock can give Paradox Hotel a 1 star. It's fairly accessible prog music with no blatant plagiarism. I can't even think of one prog album I'd give that to (except maybe Ummagumma, but the Live album makes up for the horrible studio album). And I doubt you listened to it 10 times; if someone thinks an album is THAT BAD, they probably won't listen to it more than 3 times, if that. |
If you're giving Ummagumma 1 star, you should also be giving one star to half of all avant prog and kraut in existence, which isn't that open minded
Personally it's my favorite PF album.
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Absolutely not. I like Hoyry-Kone, Alamaailman Vasarat, Taal, Dun, Magma, and some others as far as avant goes. I haven't heard too much krautrock yet (other genres I've rather investigate), but I like Ash Ra Tempel and would like to check out Amon Duul II along with some more obscure bands that sound more interesting to me than the typical Can/Neu!/Faust recommended krautrock.
Ummagumma studio side just sounds bad to me, doesn't mean I dislike any subgenre as a whole (except perhaps pure noise music, but since I haven't heard all of it I can't truely say).
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Can/Neu/Faust and the likes is what I'm talking about... and they make up about half of all kraut on this site. The other half is calmer electronic stuff. All a matter of taste I guess...
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:23 |
The only TFK song I have, I like a lot. Might have to get an album contrary to the opinion of the wiz kid over here. 
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:22 |
Im pretty sure I speak for many FK fans here- how can you not at least give it 2 stars? (which is for fans of that band ONLY) I would like you to find some others who like the FK- but do not like Paradox Hotel. Your out of your friggin' mind.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:22 |
stonebeard wrote:
Not plagiarized, but this sentence shows your bias:
"The biggest problem with the album is not the endless references to classic prog we have all heard, it's that it's simply a bad album." |
Exactly. I'm not saying the albums problem is not it's 'plagarism' but it's poor quality.
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Mikerinos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Planet Gong
Status: Offline
Points: 8890
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:21 |
The Miracle wrote:
Bluesaga wrote:
I don't understand how any open-minded fan of Progressive Rock can give Paradox Hotel a 1 star. It's fairly accessible prog music with no blatant plagiarism. I can't even think of one prog album I'd give that to (except maybe Ummagumma, but the Live album makes up for the horrible studio album). And I doubt you listened to it 10 times; if someone thinks an album is THAT BAD, they probably won't listen to it more than 3 times, if that. |
If you're giving Ummagumma 1 star, you should also be giving one star to half of all avant prog and kraut in existence, which isn't that open minded
Personally it's my favorite PF album.
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Absolutely not. I like Hoyry-Kone, Alamaailman Vasarat, Taal, Dun, Magma, and some others as far as avant goes. I haven't heard too much krautrock yet (other genres I've rather investigate), but I like Ash Ra Tempel and would like to check out Amon Duul II along with some more obscure bands that sound more interesting to me than the typical Can/Neu!/Faust recommended krautrock. Ummagumma studio side just sounds bad to me, doesn't mean I dislike any subgenre as a whole (except perhaps pure noise music, but since I haven't heard all of it I can't truely say).
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:20 |
Not plagiarized, but this sentence shows your bias:
"The biggest problem with the album is not the endless references to classic prog we have all heard, it's that it's simply a bad album."
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:19 |
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1 star? (Still amazed)
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:18 |
TRoTZ wrote:
Stonebeard, What I wanted to say was "shouldn't progressive be really progressive, as the word says?" |
Well, yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I wasn't getting up in a mess because of the grammar, but rather the repeated notion that progressive has to be something new. Yeah, that's what the word literally means and that's what it was applied to prog acts of the 60s and 70s, but music has covered such a wide ground since then, I have no idea to what music possibly could progress to next. To me, endlessly combining two or however many sperate genres together (for a ficticious example: hip-hop, long songs, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum) does not equal prog. To me, prog is only an adjective that describes certain apects of the music, with nothing related to a "forward-thinking" outlook on music.
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TRoTZ
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 25 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:18 |
I couldn't agree more with you The Miracle
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:17 |
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:16 |
Bluesaga wrote:
I don't understand how any open-minded fan of Progressive Rock can give Paradox Hotel a 1 star. It's fairly accessible prog music with no blatant plagiarism. I can't even think of one prog album I'd give that to (except maybe Ummagumma, but the Live album makes up for the horrible studio album). And I doubt you listened to it 10 times; if someone thinks an album is THAT BAD, they probably won't listen to it more than 3 times, if that. |
If you're giving Ummagumma 1 star, you should also be giving one star to half of all avant prog and kraut in existence, which isn't that open minded Personally it's my favorite PF album.
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:15 |
How so? Because we have our own opinions?
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Mikerinos
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Planet Gong
Status: Offline
Points: 8890
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:15 |
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:14 |
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Some of you guys are ridiculous.
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TRoTZ
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 25 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:13 |
Stonebeard, What I wanted to say was "shouldn't progressive be really progressive, as the word says?"
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 18 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7341
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:11 |
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How many times must I say that I did not bash the album because it was too accessible or plagarised the classics.
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TRoTZ
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 25 2004
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 18:10 |
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You think that people don't like this album because they are not open-minded? That's precisely the opposite lol Open mindness is necessary for completely different albuns, not albuns that try and fails to make odes to 70's classics.
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Why many people dislike The Flower Kings
