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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 13:32
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short.

 


Just because they came in at the end when things were looking bad doesn't make their contribution any greater; I respect the American soldiers who fought in the Alliance, but just as the other Allied countries would quite possibly have lost the War (or wars) without the US, if Britain (or several other important countries*) hadn't fought and the US had I'm sure an equally unfortunate outcome would have been reached.

*read: my history is somewhat weak

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 13:32

All:

I would have to agree (at least in part) with Sweetnighter here, in the sense that the "definition" of "empire" may have changed over the years.

As Sweetnighter notes, an "empire" used to be, at least primarily, the ownership and control of "real estate" (and economies of those countries it held), usually by force or threat of force.  However, I think the operative word is no longer "real estate" but "control" - in any sense, by any means.

In that regard, it is not simply money that determines the "American" empire.  Consider:

-Culture.  American "culture" has become globally predominant.  American "exports" re music, fashion, film, etc. have spread to - and, in a figurative if not literal sense, predominate in - almost every country.  Think of Coca-Cola, McDonald's (in all but two of the sovereign nations of the world), Disney, etc.  Yes, there are other centers for fashion (Milan, London, Paris et al), music (England, Germany, Italy et al), film (India, Italy, England et al), etc.,  and other "global" "brands" (e.g., Virgin).  But America is without question the "cultural leader" of the world.  This creates a sort of "hegemony" all by itself.  As an aside, the U.S. TV media "stole" most of its "reality TV" ideas from British programs.  Yet the British were unable to "sell" them to the rest of the world, while the U.S. has been successfully selling them throughout the globe (and thereby continuing to "dumb down" the cultures of other countries...).

-Language.  More people speak English than any other language (except perhaps Chinese, but that is simply due to sheer numbers).  True, the British started this during the creation of their empire.  But the U.S. influence in "forcing" English on almost every other nation cannot be questioned.  Somehow, Americans don't think they should have to learn to speak a second language; yet they believe everyone in the whole world should speak theirs.  And more people in more countries speak English than any other language other than their native tongue (i.e., as a second language).  If this is not a global "hegemony" of sorts - as well as one definition of "empire" - I don't know what is.

-Money.  Whether up or down, the dollar still determines the remainder of the world's financial markets.  And the U.S. economy, even at its worst, is still bigger - by far - than the economy of any other country, or even group of countries.  Indeed, the creation of a "United States of Europe" - and the development of the euro, etc. - is a direct reflection of just how powerful the American economy really is: i.e., that it takes over a dozen major countries joining together to simply create a relative "parity" of economies.

This is just a very quick, simplistic look at the global scene.  I know there are many more examples of America's "empire," as "newly" defined.  However, I am in a hurry.  If I think of more, I will post them.

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 13:17
Originally posted by gdub411 gdub411 wrote:

Do we REALLY need another America bashing thread? Also, for Ivan's sake..Let's just call this a USA bashing thread.

 

Oh shut up,you know you love the opportunity to demonstrate your ignorance of all things academic!LOL




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 13:10

Do we REALLY need another America bashing thread? Also, for Ivan's sake..Let's just call this a USA bashing thread.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 12:59
Originally posted by Fitzcarraldo Fitzcarraldo wrote:

If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short.

Maybe, maybe not. How many lives might have been saved if America had joined sooner?Confused




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 11:20
What the United States has done in terms of gaining power is in a sense revolutionary... previously in history, empires were forged by armies marching far and wide, taking control of everything that came in their way.... from Rome to the Soviet Union. The major flaw behind this type of empire is that each had a territorial breaking point... once to far outstretched, the empire couldn't hold itself together. The United States built an empire on wealth and commerce unparalleled in human history. Great example is when Reagan took office in 1980 and asked his secretary of defense how they were going to beat the Soviets. The conversation went something like this:

"Do we have more weapons?"

"No Mr.President"

"Do we have more troops?"

"No Mr.President"

"Planes? Tanks?"

"No Mr.President"

"Well.... what can we beat them with then?"

"Well we have more money Mr.President..."

"Then we'll beat them with that."

And, by 1990, that victory was indeed made with money... the US just had to sit it out and watch the Soviets suffocate themselves.

...The US gave Jazz too, without which prog would suffer
I bleed coffee. When I don't drink coffee, my veins run dry, and I shrivel up and die.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 10:28

If it wasn't for the USA, Britain and the other European countries mentioned by sigod (including the neutral countries mentioned) might still be part of an empire: either a Nazi empire or a Soviet empire (probably the latter). Collective memory is very short.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 08:32

And Donny Osmond

Cheers for that America.

Confusion will be my epitaph, as I crawl a cracked and broken path, if we make it we can all sit back and laugh, but I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 07:58

Originally posted by Pixel Pirate Pixel Pirate wrote:

The American empire is not an empire of geography but of minds. That's why it's impossible to put up any resistance and why it's destined to be victorious beyond the wildest dream of Napoleon and Hitler combined.

But on the upside, America has given us the atomic bomb, Hollywood, Dr Pepper and cheerleaders... 



Edited by sigod
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 07:55
The American empire is not an empire of geography but of minds. That's why it's impossible to put up any resistance and why it's destined to be victorious beyond the wildest dream of Napoleon and Hitler combined.
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2004 at 07:50

Britain had one, France had one, so did Spain, Portugal, Germany and Holland. Hell, even Belgium had one.

You can't say Hawaii, Alaska or the moon, that doesn't count. And you can't claim Canada either.

Great Britain still presides over the mighty Falkland Islands and a two large rocks in the Pacific somewhere which may have a seal or an albatross on it from time to time.

 

 

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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