PA the only site to recognize J-R Fusion as Prog?

^One might not be personally enthusiastic about distinguishing between "Prog" and progressive. Its understandable. But without that distinction Prog Archives would have to remove about 80-90% of its bands and artists. Surely most of us know when something is "Prog", as in short for "progressive". But that only covers a small percentage of the music on PA. Radiohead is a perfect example. When I listen to Kid A or In Rainbows I don't hear "Prog" as in short for "progressive". Much like say... Can, Tortoise or Zappa, I hear music related to rock that is progressive in its approach. A lot of proggers don't associate Krautrock, Post Rock of Jazz Rock (etc...) with Prog as such. I'm one of them myself. But they all represent variations of a progressive approach to what rock music can be and mean. Without being the genre "Prog Rock". That's why I think they have a natural place in the Prog Archives. Even without actually being Prog.

(Edit: in a nutshell I'm basically agreeing with Awesoreno)

Edited by Saperlipopette! - September 22 2024 at 09:28

Edited by David_D - September 22 2024 at 00:36

cstack3 wrote: Do you then consider JRF as a part of prog?

Edited by David_D - September 21 2024 at 16:25

Over the years I have become less enthusiastic about distinguishing between "Prog" and "progressive". Back when I created Progfreak.com that was one of the main novelties in the database, but over the years people lost interest, and it ultimately is too "nit-picky" IMHO versus the benefits. Earlier this year we reverted back to a simple "non-prog/prog-adjacent/prog" classification and I think that is sufficient. The needed flexibility emerges from the combination of this classification with all the other tags and genres. 

Starshiper wrote: Logan wrote: Popular music or not, if this site became a "modern" (say post 1950) progressive music site, I would expect it to include various types of academic music, experimental music and art music. I would expect Coltrane (husband and wife), Sun Ra, Xenakis, Cage, King Crimson, Pere Ubu, Art Bears, Art Zoyd, all RIO not de Janeiro etc. etc. Progressive music is not limited to genre or popularity. But you already are a progressive music site, as you have so far included in your database jazz artists like Miles Davis, electronic music acts, artistic pop-rock bands like 10cc, "proggy" hard rock and heavy metal giants, folk singer-songwriters, and even some more experimental post-punk bands.

That is true, but I mean if it were a more all-encompassing modern (say post 1950) progressive music site rather than still having at its core progressive rock (and what is deemed related enough to it). It's a kind of discussion that has come up many times over the years. Some have complained that PA expanded too far from Progressive Rock by including various artists that aren't really rock, some have said that PA did not go far enough and it should embrace more progressive music even if it is not rock including academic music/ Western art music and the like. By allowing all progressive music in, or even just post 1950, that would indeed open the floodgates.

For myself, and not in the purview of volunteering as an admin, I don't much care either way. I'm a forum guy and I can talk about the varied music I like at this board whether it is in PA or not. I use rateyourmusic for the database, not PA generally as my interests go beyond Prog and progressive (adjective) music.

For myself I have wanted to create a site that focuses on "modern (say late 50s up) experimental, progressive, art music (if it's popular music not being an issue) but I would not expect that of PA. PA will overlap with genres not generally associated with Prog, or even go outside it depending on perspective, and there will be happy campers and not happy campers.

As for being argumentative, I don't like argumentative discussions. I prefer dialectic where we really listen to each other and try to understand where each other is coming from, avoid assumptions, and discuss in a cordial and generally jovial and light-hearted manner. And I love humour provided it's not snarky or sarcastic. I appreciate warmth and consideration in conversation. And if one ever reacts poorly, to apologise, shake hands, and move on....

Edited by Logan - September 21 2024 at 10:51

Logan wrote: Popular music or not, if this site became a "modern" (say post 1950) progressive music site, I would expect it to include various types of academic music, experimental music and art music. I would expect Coltrane (husband and wife), Sun Ra, Xenakis, Cage, King Crimson, Pere Ubu, Art Bears, Art Zoyd, all RIO not de Janeiro etc. etc. Progressive music is not limited to genre or popularity.

But you already are a progressive music site, as you have so far included in your database jazz artists like Miles Davis, electronic music acts, artistic pop-rock bands like 10cc, "proggy" hard rock and heavy metal giants, folk singer-songwriters, and even some more experimental post-punk bands.

Popular music or not, if this site became a "modern" (say post 1950) progressive music site, I would expect it to include various types of academic music, experimental music and art music. I would expect Coltrane (husband and wife), Sun Ra, Xenakis, Cage, King Crimson, Pere Ubu, Art Bears, Art Zoyd, all RIO not de Janeiro etc. etc. Progressive music is not limited to genre or popularity.

Edited by Logan - September 21 2024 at 09:39

^It's not more within my or most other people's defintion of popular music than the type of composers I mentioned. Yes, Genesis, Supertramp, some King Crimson sure, but there's nothing remotely close to music with a even a potentially wide appeal to any of the ones I mentioned.

Popular music is music with wide appeal that is typically distributed to large audiences through the music industry. These forms and styles can be enjoyed and performed by people with little or no musical training. It stands in contrast to both art music and traditional or "folk" music.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - September 21 2024 at 09:12

^I was thinking more in line of Minimalist / Post-Minimalist and movie score composers etc - such as Colin Stetson, Nico Muhly, Wim Mertens mm..., and not the canonised early Modernist composers (and should have specified 20th/21st). A bit more crossover if you will. There's literally thousands.

I don't by the "popular music made for the masses" argument. Since when was Art Zoyd, Codona, Julverne or Mwandishi-sextet part of Popular music?