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The most successful modern prog music nation?

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 03:54
^ by whom?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 03:48

In my book, the main criteria for being "successful" is to be appreciated.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Chiyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 01:42
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

^And that's honestly the first track you've posted that actually is "modern" in terms of prog, at least to my ears (love that album). 
Okay, but I have to say that I'm surprised that the Big Big Train video I posted doesn't sound modern to your ears. Oh, and that one—"The Transit of Venus Across the Sun" live at the Boerderij, Holland—has 25,275 views right now, which is healthy for a live video uploaded to YouTube a few months ago.

Maybe I will be more convincing with this official video from Big Big Train, released a month ago, featuring the song "Oblivion," which is taken from their upcoming album “The Likes of Us," out March 1st, 2024. It has a healthy 138,589 views at this very moment.


Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

To my knowledge, many more bands from the US (and Japan, Canada) are producing fresh, new material that rivals that of Norway. And ALL of them are blowing the UK out of the water in terms of innovation (as opposed to quantity, black midi notwithstanding).
Surely, the U.S., Japan, and Canada have a number of interesting contemporary bands that explore new territories; however, I strongly disagree that they "blowing" the UK. In that regard, I'd like to mention Chlöe Herington. She is a London-based avant-gardist whose shining project is called VÄLVE. Emma Sullivan, a fellow Chrome Hoof, joins her, and they released an amazing album recently, titled "Tiny Pilots." This is an official video of the song "Gertrude's List from that album. That is a top-notch avant-prog song, in my humble opinion.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 00:53
^And that's honestly the first track you've posted that actually is "modern" in terms of prog, at least to my ears (love that album). That's not a comment on my opinion of the quality. But I think Grumpy brought up the true dichotomy of how we're discussing this. Are we talking the NUMBER of groups/artists and releases, or are we talking about acts that are actually treading new (or at least somewhat new) ground? 

It's certainly true that Norway (and Sweden) has many current groups that are making all different kinds of music. But it does seem like a significant portion of it is in the symph vein with varying degrees of retro prog flavors. To my knowledge, many more bands from the US (and Japan, Canada) are producing fresh, new material that rivals that of Norway. And ALL of them are blowing the UK out of the water in terms of innovation (as opposed to quantity, black midi notwithstanding). Indeed, most of what you have posted helps make that point. And once again, this is to say nothing of the quality of the music. That is entirely subjective. And I enjoyed much of what you posted, to be fair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Chiyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2024 at 00:13
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

If you look at the PA Top 10 for the last decade there are 5 Norwegian albums. There's your answer right there.
I honestly don't know anything about Progarchives' popularity ranking system, so I can't comment on that. However, this official video from Frost*—East Sussex's band formed in 2004—has a healthy 252,570 views for the time being, and that is a modern take on prog-rock:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 22:57
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

If you look at the PA Top 10 for the last decade there are 5 Norwegian albums. There's your answer right there.
If you look at successful as popular, yes. If you look at success as creating something different and fresh, I don't think Wobbler and those other Norwegian bands meet that criteria.
Being successful is about being somewhat popular. At least to an extent. I much prefer VdGG over Yes and ELP, but I would be incorrect if I claimed that the former band were more successful than the latter bands. Even though I personally think of them as artistically superior to both. If you create art that's differnt and fresh but nobody knows about it, you're partly unsuccessful. Unfortunately.

-Anyway, I think it needs to be a bit of both. A "successful modern prog nation" should to be profilic, vibrant and of course diverse. For every "Wobbler-band" there's at least twice as many experimental and forward thinking "Rune Grammofon" kinds of bands and projects etc... But of course, they are less "successful", so fewer people knows about them. I listen to them though (Wobbler, not so much. Although I fully respect them for working within an established tradition - and doing it well).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 22:24
Favourite: UK, Norway, Germany
Best: Norway, UK
Successful: No idea, I don't study gig ticket and music sales.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 12:40
That is part of the discussion points for this topic. What does it mean to be successful? How do you measure success?

In Norway's defense, there is a variety of prog that does come from there, not just retro prog. Though the retro is the most popular on a prog scale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 12:29
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

If you look at the PA Top 10 for the last decade there are 5 Norwegian albums. There's your answer right there.
If you look at successful as popular, yes. If you look at success as creating something different and fresh, I don't think Wobbler and those other Norwegian bands meet that criteria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 12:12
If you look at the PA Top 10 for the last decade there are 5 Norwegian albums. There's your answer right there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 11:32
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

The 15 most popular European bands, not including post-Brexit Britain who are no longer part of Europe, politically speaking. Smile

It's really annoying and too bad, Paul, how much you ignore the OPs. Shocked




Edited by David_D - January 09 2024 at 12:30
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 11:14
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

It's hard to say, since there are so many sub-genres in prog these days. Italy, UK, USA, Germany, Sweden, etc, all have many good bands. Depending on what kind of prog you are into, the result could be quite different.

Excellent reply! 

USA is seeing something of a resurgence in jazz-rock fusion, with younger players (Gabe Severn) hitting the stage and older acts (Al Dimeola) continuing to tour.   No huge break-out acts yet, I'll post when there are. 

Not much in symphonic from USA lately, although the new Glass Hammer CD "Arise" is certainly excellent!   Colin Carter's new CD "Tracks in Space" is another fine work (eclectic?) 

PA is great for tracking all of this stuff, thanks for all the updates!!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 11:11
^ I don't agree with the final Top 15 either. Tangerine Dream should've been top of the list and how on earth did Univers Zero make it into the Top 10. Another rhetorical question. Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:55
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ How many did vote? And why ever could lead that number of votes to the statement that those are "The 15 most popular European bands"?

These are rather rhetorical questions...
They're the 15 most popular European prog bands as voted for by the good members of ProgArchives. What more do you need to know? That's a rhetorical question too. Smile

Ah! That's already two additional criteria that were not mentioned before. Remains the question of why those 12-or-so voter in your thread could legitimize the proposition that that these are "The 15 most popular European bands" as you dared to state before? I don't think you can justify such a statement other than by lying to yourself. It suffices to do a diligent search in the PA database (or on RYM) to get completely different results...


Edited by suitkees - January 09 2024 at 10:56

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:19
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Britain no longer part of Europe? That will be news to map-makers

Only from a political and proggy perspective. When I think of European prog bands, I'm thinking of continental Europe. Wink
Well then you have to exclude Norwegian bands as well as Norway's never been a part of the EU. And Switzerland + Iceland... plus several Eastern European nations. Or you can think of it correctly, which is that Europe and the European Union are not the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:18
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ How many did vote? And why ever could lead that number of votes to the statement that those are "The 15 most popular European bands"?

These are rather rhetorical questions...
They're the 15 most popular European prog bands as voted for by the good members of ProgArchives. What more do you need to know? That's a rhetorical question too. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:17
Paul didn't give the title of his list, which should be something like, "The 15 most popular European bands according to members of the Prog Rock Archives forum who responded to my poll in [insert year] using my weighted point system."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:06
^ How many did vote? And why ever could lead that number of votes to the statement that those are "The 15 most popular European bands"?

These are rather rhetorical questions...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 10:01
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ Well, I guess those results come from one of PP's polls, so they have no representative value whatsoever, but only for those who think they have, so saying that those bands are "The 15 most popular European bands" is ludicrous.
They're only "ludicrous and unrepresentative" if you dismiss the votes of the good members of ProgArchives. Wink

Prog Europa - Top 10 European Prog Bands - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124979&PN=4


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - January 09 2024 at 10:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2024 at 09:59
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Britain no longer part of Europe? That will be news to map-makers

Only from a political and proggy perspective. When I think of European prog bands, I'm thinking of continental Europe. Wink
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