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Your fave "avantgardish" Progressive Rock albums?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 06:04
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

It's up to you what to think of as "avantgardish" in this context, but I have in mind those albums which you like/listen to, but which are particularly challenging for you.
...These ten albums would all be considered challenging (or pretty much unlistenable) by someone like Psychedelic Paul - .....

You could have read my OP better as well, Saperlipopette!
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I suspect that would have been very different, if I had attempted to listen to avant garde music earlier on in my life, and when I had been exposed to less variety and experimentation. 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️


This is essentially my experience, I heard Henry Cow - In Praise Of Learning & Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica in my teens when I was pretty much only into Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Saxon, Black Sabbath, AC/DC and the like. 

To say they were a bit of a shock was an understatement, but I did find them interesting and though it took me a decade for them to 'click' they did provide a first step towards the bulk of what I listen to these days. Hearing Larks Tongues In Aspic around the same time had the same WTF visceral reaction but I connected with that one by the end of side 1 of the first listen.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

The Necks - Hanging Gardens


Good call on The Necks, adding jazz opens it up for me to other non-prog 'difficult' albums

I'll add

Steve Reich - Music For 18 Musicians
John Coltrane - Ascension

plus one more prog one 

Förträngt Hushållsarbete - Offret om att Älska...
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 05:47
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


I can see your problem, Nick, but the most interesting for me with this thread is to see what can be challenging for people,
and how different (subjective) it can be. So, I am glad of your post, as it's quite informative in that concern, thanks. 
- But no reason to make it to such a problem as you do. 
Think more constructive would therefore still be my advice to you. Smile

My intention with this thread is also to give the opportunity to tell each other what one can find challenging,
and have good communication about it.

Ah, in that case, I tend to go with the view of a couple of opinions above. What I find challenging is probably what Paul enjoys, and what Paul finds challenging, I probably enjoy! There will, of course be some crossover, where we both enjoy the same things (but I suspect there is only a very small union).
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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The creepy music of the  Italian-Slovenian band Devil Doll are about as "avant-garde" as it gets by the standards of my somewhat conservative musical tastes. Smile

3 stars 1989: Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was... Death - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYdcApobjTY&t=497s
3 stars 1990: Devil Doll - Eliogabulus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARus_-poevk
4 stars 1992: Devil Doll - Sacrilegium - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHu_LmvSjB4&t=407s
3 stars 1993: Devil Doll - The Sacrilege of Fatal Arms - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5uSrBgzXAs&t=1868s
4 stars 1996: Devil Doll - Dies Irae - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS87xpm8SoI&t=1527s
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Points: 15555 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 05:35

I can see your problem, Nick, but the most interesting for me with this thread is to see what can be challenging for people,
and how different (subjective) it can be. So, I am glad of your post, as it's quite informative in that concern, thanks. 
- But no reason to make it to such a problem as you do. 
Think more constructive would therefore still be my advice to you. Smile

My intention with this thread is also to give the opportunity to tell each other what one can find challenging,
and have good communication about it.


Edited by David_D - August 15 2022 at 05:40
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

It's up to you what to think of as "avantgardish" in this context, but I have in mind those albums which you like/listen to, but which are particularly chalenging for you.
Yeah I can't use that definition either. Music that's a challenge and that I like, would primarely exist outside the realms of prog. But let's say it like this: These ten albums would all be considered challenging (or pretty much unlistenable) by someone like Psychedelic Paul - and they took me some spins to love as much as I currently do. I wouldn't play any of them if we were having guests over for dinner either. Also I've never grown tired of them after listening for a decade or decades (except for The Necks who first I discovered only a couple of years ago): 

Art Zoyd - Génération Sans Futur
Jan Garbarek Quartet - Afric Pepperbird
Herbie Hancock - Crossings
Magma - Magma / Kobaïa
Univers Zéro - Univers Zéro
Igor Wakhévitch - Docteur Faust
The Residents - Mark of the Mole
Non Credo - Happy Wretched Family
Tangerine Dream - Alpha Centauri
The Necks - Hanging Gardens
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 05:11
^ Funnily enough, that would probably work out the same for me, as my previous post.

I think the one band that took the longest time for me to connect with, and which I found the most challenging was Opeth, and therefore the most “avantgardish” albums for me, in my collection, by David’s definition are probably “Blackwater Park” through “Ghost Reveries”.

I think because by the time I came to start listening to “actual” avant garde bands and artists, I had already become far more broad minded and tolerant of that which is different to the norm, that there’s not really been anything that I can recall being particularly challenging, at all.

I suspect that would have been very different, if I had attempted to listen to avant garde music earlier on in my life, and when I had been exposed to less variety and experimentation. 🤔🤷🏻‍♂️
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Points: 21297 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 04:57
I'd say the albums that took the longest to connect with me. The first two were well over a decade

Captain Beefheart- Trout Mask Replica
Henry Cow - In Praise Of Learning
Upsilon Acrux - Radian Futura
Electric Masada - At The Mountains Of Madness
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Points: 6737 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nick_h_nz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2022 at 04:17
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

It's up to you what to think of as "avantgardish" in this context, but I have in mind those albums which you like/listen to, but which are particularly chalenging for you.

That’s an almost contradictory definition, if I go by like - though less so if I go by listen to. But I have to say that the idea of something being particularly challenging is not a good indicator for me of anything even vaguely avant garde.

If I’m to generalise, I find most neo-prog particularly challenging, and very little RIO/Avant to be challenging at all.

The albums I like that can still almost be challenging to listen to for me are likely to be those with extreme vocals. I like a lot of Tech/Death and Exp/Post music, much of which has extreme vocals - and I have never been a fan of extreme vocals. I used to find any of this music “particularly challenging”, but now I would describe very little of it that way. Some is still too much (too challenging?) so I simply don’t listen to it anymore.

There is, therefore, nothing I can think of (off the top of my head) which actually fits your definition of “avantgardish”.
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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5 stars 2012: Dead Can Dance - Anastasis - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoIDt_C5y1LuemFe_w43gg8ebhsmUmNbn
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David_D View Drop Down
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Being a kind of proud to like some of the more avantgardish Prog albums, I've got the idea and wish for this thread. 

It's up to you what to think of as "avantgardish" in this context, but I have in mind those albums which you 

like/listen to, but which are particularly challenging for you. 


For me it's mostly what I consider to be some Avant-Prog and Zeuhl albums, and my list looks like:


Magma  (F)  -  2:1001º Centigrades   (1971)

King Crimson  (UK)  -  Larks’ Tongues in Aspic   (1973)

Magma   -   Üdü Wüdü    (1976) 

Heldon  (F)   -  Heldon 6. Interface  (1977) 

Eskaton  (F)  -  4 Visions   (1979, 1981) 

Voivod  (CAN)  -  Nothingface   (1989)

Bondage Fruit  (J)  -  II  (1996)

Taal  (F)  -  Skymind    (2002)  

Univers Zero  (B)  -  Clivages   (2010)

Swans  (USA)   -  To Be Kind    (2014) 


not on PA:

Aesma Daeva  (USA)  -  The Eros of Frigid Beauty  (2001)


And enjoy youself! Tongue


       Edit:

To avoid misunderstandings let me point that I use here the word "avantgardish" in its basic meaning which is 

"favouring or introducing new and experimental ideas and methods" (according to Oxford Languages).



Edited by David_D - November 22 2022 at 04:44
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