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Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest
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Points: 20030 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2020 at 07:28
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

I remember reading that the band had conceived and written it as an instrumental and were displeased when they found out Gabriel had gone in late night and laid this torrent of words on top of it without consulting with them about it.

I've read similar accounts. According to Tony, Gabriel would do that quite a lot. That's why the end of Apocalypse in 9/8 isn't instrumental.

In Gabriel's defense, he's usually doing the song a favor.
Well, it wouldn't have made the most exciting instrumental ever.
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I don't hate it.
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Reading the lyrics, it seems Peter Gabrial hsd a little Charles Dickens fever, cause it reads quite in a Dickensian fassion of wierd characters
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Didn't we already have this discussion a few weeks ago?Confused

Yes, and I hate talking about Epping Forest as much as listening to it! Wink
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Didn't we already have this discussion a few weeks ago?Confused
in the Closest to Perfect Album topic or Fave Genesis Lyrics thread or something



Epping Forest is certainly one of my fave Genesis tracks, and their best rock opera ahead of RA&B, GTOBF and AIAMN and brilliant almost-Python-esque humour is certainly one of its main attraction.
However I understand that it maybe sound weird, with the hilarious middle interlude about the priest and the "beautiful chest" not being everyone's cup of tea, but I really don't see why anyone would hate this near-typical Gabe-era Genesis track, unless they don't get it at all.

Sooooo, if there is one Gabe-era track on that album (and the others) that gets "hate" (and rightly so, IMHO) it is More Fool Me, which is just about as detestable as YOSW on W&W.
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I was 12 when I first heard this after borrowing the album from a mate at school.  I am 57 now - I still love it and never, ever tire of it.
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It's one of my favorite Genesis Gabriel tracks, and I've always loved it! I love that proggies have a gripe with it even more LOL.

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I don't like it apart from the brilliant first 2 minutes. It comes crashing out of the gates with serious intent and then falls at the firth or fifth hurdle (see what I did there lol). It's a weirdly muddled album for the second top album but even I have to admit it was my favourite album about 30 years ago. Now I feel it's missing too much. Even Cinema show is just a little bit too 'quiet' for my taste. The only untouchable tracks on this album are Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and Firth of Fifth but they are glorious and if you see in terms of being their most eccentric album then it's not so bad Wink


Edited by richardh - April 21 2020 at 00:35
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Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.
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It’s a little funny. I’ve seen so many folks claim this album as an absolute masterpiece...yet many of them skip this track. Sorta like all the people who go up and down about the King Crimson debut yet haven’t heard Moonchild since 73 during a mushroom trip
Personally? I dig the tune..although Peter probably should’ve mentioned something to the lads before he infused the Vaudeville touch.
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Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

I remember reading that the band had conceived and written it as an instrumental and were displeased when they found out Gabriel had gone in late night and laid this torrent of words on top of it without consulting with them about it.

I've read similar accounts. According to Tony, Gabriel would do that quite a lot. That's why the end of Apocalypse in 9/8 isn't instrumental.

In Gabriel's defense, he's usually doing the song a favor.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Points: 94 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeuhl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2020 at 22:01
I remember reading that the band had conceived and written it as an instrumental and were displeased when they found out Gabriel had gone in late night and laid this torrent of words on top of it without consulting with them about it.
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I don’t get how this is our second highest rated album when people are always complaining about either epping forest, more fool me and after the ordeal. I don’t think after the ordeal is amazing but I have no issue with those other two.

I think it's all about the sound of the album. It's gorgeously produced, just the right balance and blend of all the different instruments. Add in at least 3 stone cold Genesis classics and some pretty good sequencing and overall themes and you have yourself a prog classic. Besides, Yes' Fragile manages to win people over on the strength of 3 or 4 songs all the time (not that the other material is bad at all, but come on).
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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I don’t get how this is our second highest rated album when people are always complaining about either epping forest, more fool me and after the ordeal. I don’t think after the ordeal is amazing but I have no issue with those other two.
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It's a slog and a half, but I'm not the biggest fan of Genesis anyway... 
New album!
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
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Yep, it's very verbose. I just pulled the lyrics from online and if you compare it to the other songs on the album it probably has at least tiwce as many lyrics. 


Lyrics
(Taken from a news story concerning two rival gangs fighting
Over East-End Protection rights)
Along the Forest Road, there's hundreds of cars - luxury cars.
Each has got its load of convertible bars, cutlery cars - superscars!
For today is the day when they sort it out, sort it out,
'cause they disagree on a gangland boundary.
Yes, they disagree on a gangland boundary.
There's Willy Wright and his boys -
One helluva noise, that's Billy's boys!
With fully-fashioned mugs, that's Little John's thugs,
The Barking Slugs - supersmugs!
For today is the day when they sort it out, sort it out,
These Christian soldiers fight to protect the poor.
East end heroes got to score in...
The Battle of Epping Forest,
It's the Battle of Epping Forest,
Right outside your door.
You ain't seen nothing like it.
No, you ain't seen nothing like it,
Not since the Civil War.
Coming over the hill are the boys of Bill,
And Johnny's lads stand very still.
With the thumpire's shout, they all start to clout
- there's no guns in this gentleman's bout.
Georgie moves in on the outside left
With a chain flying round his head;
And Harold Demure, from Art Literature,
Nips up the nearest tree.
(Here come the cavalry!)
Admidst the battle roar,
Accountants keep the score: 10-4.
They've never been alone, after getting a radiophone.
The bluebells are ringing for Sweetmeal Sam, real ham,
Handing out bread and jam just like any picnic.
It's 5-4 on William Wright; he made his pile on Derby night.
When Billy was a kid, walking the streets,
The other kids hid - so they did!
Now, after working hard in security trade, he's got it made.
The shops that need aid are those that haven't paid.
"I do my double-show quick!" said Mick the Prick, fresh out the nick.
"I sell cheap holiday. The minute they leave,
Then a visit I pay - and does it pay!"
And his friend, Liquid Len by name,
Of Wine, Women and Wandsworth fame,
Said "I'm breaking the legs of the b*****d that got me framded!"
They called me the Reverend when I entered the Church unstained;
My employers have changed but the name has remained.
It all began when I went on a tour,
Hoping to find some furniture.
I followed a sign - it said "Beautiful Chest".
It led to a lady who showed me her best.
She was taken by surprise when I quickly closed my eyes.
So she rang the bell, and quick as hell
Bob the Nob came out on his job
To see what the trouble was.
"Louise, is the Reverend hard to please?"
"You're telling me!"
"Perhaps, sir, if it's not too late.
We could interest you in our Staffordshire plate?"
"Oh no, not me, I'm a man of repute."
But the Devil caught hold of my soul and a voice called out "Shoot!"
To save my steeple, I visited people;
For this I'd gone when I met Little John.
His name came, I understood,
When the judge said "You're a robbing hood."
He told me of his strange foundation,
Conceived on sight of the Woodstock nation;
He'd had to hide his reputation.
When poor, 'twas salvation from door to door.
But now, with a pin-up guru every week,
It's Love, Peace & Truth Incorporated for all who seek.
He employed me as a karmacanic, with overall charms.
His hands were then fit to receive, receive alms.
That's why we're in
The Battle of Epping Forest,
It's the Battle of Epping Forest,
Right outside your door.
We guard your souls for peanuts,
And we guard your shops and houses
For just a little more.
In with a left hook is the Bethnal Green Butcher,
But he's countered on the right by Mick's chain-gang fight,
And Liquid Len, with his smashed bottle men,
Is lobbing Bob the Nob across the gob.
With his kissar in a mess, Bob seems under stress,
But Jones the Jug hits Len right in the mug;
And Harold Demure, who's still not quite sure,
Fires acorns from out of his sling.
(Here come the cavalry!)
Up, up above the crowd,
Inside their Silver Cloud, done proud,
The bold and brazen brass, seen darkly through the glass.
The butler's got jam on his Rolls; Roy doles out the lot,
With tea from a silver pot just like any picnic.
Along the Forest Road, it's the end of the day
And the Clouds roll away.
Each has got its load - they'll come out for the count
At the break-in of day.
When the limos return for their final review, it's all through'
- all they can see is the morning goo.
"There's no-one left alive - must be draw."
So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.
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I don't hate it, but it isn't a favorite. Definitely weighed down the album for my on my first many listens. It just doesn't gel very well and it goes on not gelling for 11 minutes in the middle of the album. The lyrics are fun, but it really is one of those cases where Tony might have been right about Gabriel tossing way too many words over his beautiful instrumental.
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I don't hate it either. It's a fun track with good musicianship in typical Genesis style. If you don't like this track then I don't think classic 70's Genesis is for you, as this one is bang on.
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Good question, I mean, that’s literally progressive music right there.
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I don't hate it I just think it's kind of sloppy. :) 

I actually don't mind listening to it and find it a fun listen when in the right mood but unfortunately it's the weakest link on the album.
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