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20th century novelists

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Poll Question: Choose your favourite(s)
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [2.24%]
9 [6.72%]
5 [3.73%]
5 [3.73%]
3 [2.24%]
6 [4.48%]
1 [0.75%]
11 [8.21%]
9 [6.72%]
2 [1.49%]
1 [0.75%]
7 [5.22%]
14 [10.45%]
9 [6.72%]
7 [5.22%]
1 [0.75%]
2 [1.49%]
5 [3.73%]
1 [0.75%]
11 [8.21%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [1.49%]
1 [0.75%]
3 [2.24%]
16 [11.94%]
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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 08:42
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

^^Yes, you did, and I noticed (tbh don't know K. Hulme work) - my comment was to the poll list

Oh, and I named Isabel Allende too. I really loved "The House of the Spirits".

Keri Hulme's "The Bone People", her only novel so far, won the renowned Booker Prize, which is an award for the best original novel written in the English language and published in the UK, in 1985. It is a very poetic story (though also full of violence) which I enjoyed very much when I read it. Here the synopsis from Wikipedia:

The Bone People is an unusual story of love. The differences are in the way of telling, the subject matter and the form of love that the story writes on. This is in no way a romance; it is rather filled with violence, fear and twisted emotions. At the story's core, however, are three people who struggle very hard to figure out what love is and how to find it. The book is divided into two major sections, the first involving the characters interacting together, and the second half involving their individual travels.

In the first half, 7-year-old Simon shows up at the hermit Kerewin's tower on a gloomy and stormy night. Simon is mute and thus is unable to explain his motives. When Simon's adoptive father, Joe, arrives to pick him up in the morning, Kerewin gets to know their curious story. After a freak storm years earlier, Simon was found washed up on the beach with no memory and very few clues as to his identity. Despite Simon's mysterious background, Joe and his wife Hana took the boy in. Later, Joe's infant son and Hana both died, forcing Joe to bring the troubled and troublesome Simon up on his own.

Kerewin finds herself developing a relationship with the boy and his father. Gradually it becomes clear that Simon is a deeply traumatised child, whose strange behaviours Joe is unable to cope with. Kerewin discovers that, in spite of the real familial love between them, Joe is physically abusing Simon.

Following a catalyst event, the three are driven violently apart. Simon witnesses a violent death and seeks Kerewin out, but she is angry with him for stealing some of her possessions and will not listen. Simon reacts by kicking in the side of her guitar, a much prized gift from her estranged family, whereupon she tells him frostily to leave. The boy goes to the town and breaks a series of shop windows, and when he is returned home by the police, Joe beats him more viciously than he has ever done previously. Simon, who has concealed a shard of glass from his crime, stabs his father. Both are hospitalized, and Joe is sent to prison for child abuse.

In the second half of the novel, Joe returns from his prison sentence, Simon is still in the hospital, and Kerewin is seriously and inexplicably ill. Joe loses custody of his adopted son. He travels aimlessly and finds an old spiritual man dying. Through him, Joe learns the possible identity of Simon's father. Simon is sent to a children's home, and Kerewin demolishes her tower, leaving with the expectation of dying within the year. All three overcome life-changing events, webbed with Maori mythology and legend.

Eventually Kerewin takes custody of Simon, keeping him close to her and Joe. Without Kerewin's knowledge or permission, Joe contacts Kerewin's family, resulting in a joyous reconciliation. The final scene of the novel depicts the reunion of Kerewin, Simon and Joe, who are all celebrating back at the beach where Kerewin has rebuilt her home, this time in the shape of a shell with many spirals. The end of the novel, despite many things remaining in the air, is a happy one.

Keri Hulme had recently been working on two novels at the same time (she says they are twinned novels) the working titles of which are "Bait" and "On Shadowside". The latest I heard is that "Bait" is finished and supposed to be published soon, something I look very much forward to.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 07:24
Hi,

One subtle bit of inspiration, sometimes becomes a reality ... dig this bit!

Burroughs is well known for having mixed words around in a sort of 52 pick-up (throw it all up and pick them up as they fall!), and this was taken LITERALLY in many German artistic circles, in funny ways. Peter Handke wrote a bunch of small plays that had just words, and it might have meaning or not, but acting those is hell on wheels for actors ... you don't even know if there is a "story" in the words.

We know about this process by Burroughs through several bits and pieces of Eno, Bowie and many others talking about it ... but no one ever mentions the one person that did this "literally" with music. Holger Czukay, had specified in the CAN website that TAGO MAGO was put together randomly from 20 hours of stuff. My guess is that he did the samething and threw it all up and the pieces that were selected became a part of the album! A true 52 pick-up in music, and somehow, the pieces all fit and work together very well ... which suggests that all of them came from the same set of rehearsals within the same week, or something like that.

The earlier stuff, was good, but the MM material did not exactly have as much freedom, and was more dictated by his singing and working the music. The surprising side of that is when he left, that they blew out the speakers with "Mother Sky" right away, as if it were some kind of reaction to the controlling style the music had before, which CAN went on to make sure they said, like many other German musicians at the time, that they wanted to create something that was not based on Western defined concepts for music ... but voila ... a "non-concept" used in literature and words for songs, was likely one of their inspirations.

Damo's thing, for me, has its basis in theater, as at the time, there was an incredible amount of work being done by folks doing voval gymnastics and such ... the only problem with those is that they are limited, and CAN did not stick together long enough to develop this even further ... they got bored with Damo, or vice versa. But their lyrics, as is evident in LANDED, still had a lot of Burroughs thoughts in them. They come off satirical and weird, which is the left over from "psychedelic" lyrics.

It kinda changes how literature influenced the public, and specially the arts ... at this point, I would not select a writer that was "better known" or "more famous". Bukowski is not as well liked, specially by the ladies, but his influence in the areas of theater and film, is not something to shine on ... and its hard to imagine that someone does that just because they don't care ... obviously there is something there, that we do not recognize, as there are many folks that write and discuss his work.

It's a shame that so much of the work in rock music is about FAME, and not the art itself. The art itself has a lot more riches for all of us, than we can imagine ... were we so inclined!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 06:04
^^Yes, you did, and I noticed (tbh don't know K. Hulme work) - my comment was to the poll list


Edited by Quinino - October 11 2018 at 06:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 06:04
I'm glad the list isn't longer than that !
I've enjoyed books by most of these (and have read something by nearly all of them), but three sticks out as heavily read favourites found in my teenage: Hesse, Calvino and Vonnegut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 04:25
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

SK's The Stand is truly amazing

(you can of course  always find bad moments from any writer with no exception)


BTW - not a single woman-writer worth of being listed seems odd, at best

I named Arundhati Roy and Keri Hulme. Both wrote really exceptional novels.


Edited by BaldFriede - October 11 2018 at 04:27


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 04:05
The Brontes sisters are gem
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 03:47
Nah. Maybe Virginia Woolf or Iris Murdoch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 03:35
- Marguerite Yourcenar, Margaret Atwood, ...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 03:07
^ If it was a longer list, Carson McCullers and Herta Müller would be on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 02:28
SK's The Stand is truly amazing

(you can of course  always find bad moments from any writer with no exception)


BTW - not a single woman-writer worth of being listed seems odd, at best


Edited by Quinino - October 11 2018 at 02:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 18:31
Stephen King? Really? If there are any 20th century horror writers that should be on the list they are H. P. Lovecraft, Gustav Meyrink, Leo Perutz and, with some reservations, Alfred Kubin, because he is mostly a graphic artist, though his only book, "Die andere Seite" (The Other Side"), is a real masterpiece.

But King? He unfortunately has the tendency to completely ruin what starts as an excellent book on the last 20-30 pages. Take his "Needful Things", for example. Why did he have to end it in a massacre? It completely ruined the whole book.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 14:18
Stephen King, Cormac Mcarthy, ... ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 11:38

Bukowski was very much de rigueur among male intellectuals for some time, probably because they wanted to prove they were not just some milk-faced intellectuals but REAL MEN. I never thought much of him though, maybe because I'm a woman, and would have replaced him with some other author.

I miss several authors, but of course only twenty-five can be chosen.

From Germany:

Heinrich Mann, the brother of Thomas: "Der Untertan" ("The Loyal Subject"), "Professor Unrat" ("The Blue Angel").

Heinrich Böll (a Nobel laureate nonetheless): “Ansichten eines Clowns” (“The Clown”), “Gruppenbild mit Dame” (“Group Portrait with Lady”), “Die verlorene Ehre der Katharina Blum” (“The Lost Honour of Katharina Blum”), “Fürsorgliche Belagerung” (“The Safety Net”).

Rafik Shami (Syrian born but writing in German): “Eine Hand voller Sterne” (“A Hand Full of Stars”), “Die dunkle Seite der Liebe” (“The Dark Side of Love”).

Walter Moers: “Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher” (“The City of Dreaming Books”), “Die 13½ Leben des Käpt'n Blaubär" ("The 13½ Lives of Captain Bluebear").

From England.

Anthony Burgess: “A Clockwork Orange”, “The Kingdom of the Wicked”, “Earthly Powers”).

Peter Ackroyd: “The Great Fire of London”, Hawksmoor”).

Lawrence Norfolk: “Lempriere's Dictionary”, “The Pope's Rhinoceros”.

From Ireland:

Flann O'Brian: “At Swim-Two-Birds”, “The Third Policeman”.

From France:

Marcel Proust: À la recherche du temps perdu“ (“In Search of Lost Time”).

Jean-Paul Sartre: “La Nausée“ (“Nausea”).

Albert Camus: “L'Etranger” (“The Stranger”), “La Peste” (“The Plague”).

From Portugal:

José Saramago (another Nobel laureate): “Ensaio sobre a cegueira” (“Blindness”), “A Jangada de Pedra” (“The Stone Raft”).

From Colombia:

Gabriel Garcia Márquez: “Cien años de soledad” (“One Hundred Years of Solitude”), “El otoño del patriarca” (“The Autumn of the Patriarch”), “El amor en los tiempos del cólera” (“Love in the Time of Cholera”).

From Chile:

Isabel Allende: “La casa de los espíritus” (“The House of the Spirits”), “Eva Luna” (“Eva Luna”)

From Cuba:

Guillermo Cabrera Infante: “Tres Tristres Tigres” (“Three Trapped Tigers”).

From Poland:

Stanisław Lem: “Solaris” (“Solaris”), “Pamiętnik znaleziony w wannie” (“Memoirs Found in a Bathtub”), “Eden” (“Eden”), “Kongres futurologiczny” (“The Futurulogical Congress”), “Wizja lokalna” (not translated into English yet but into German as “Lokaltermin”; the English title would be “Observation on the Spot”), “Pokój na Ziemi” (“Peace on Earth”), “Fiasko” (“Fiasco”).

From the USA:

John Barth: “The Sot-Weed Factor”.

Joseph Heller: “Catch-22”, “Something Happened”.

Thomas Pynchon: “V”, “Thy Crying of Lot 49”, “Gravity's Rainbow”, “Vineland”, “Mason & Dixon”.

Matt Ruff: “Fool on the Hill”, “Sewer, Gas and Electric”.

From Serbia:

Milorad Pavić: “Hazarski rečnik” (“Dictionary of the Khazars”), „Predeo slikan čajem“ (“Landscape Painted in Tea”).

From Japan:

Haruki Murakami: “羊をめぐる冒険 Hitsuji o meguru bōken” (“Wild Sheep Chase”),1Q84” (“1Q84”), “ダンス・ダンス・ダンス . Dansu, dansu, dansu” (“Dance, dance, dance”)

Kōbō Abe: “箱男 Hako otoko” (“The Box Man”), “燃えつきた地図 Moetsukita chizu” (“The Ruined Map”).

From India:

Arundhati Roy: “The God of Small Things”.

From New Zealand:

Keri Hulme: “The Bone People”.



Edited by BaldFriede - October 10 2018 at 11:40


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 09:28
^^^ Castaneda is one of my favourites as well, I left him out because his books aren't exactly novels. I also almost included Gurdjieff for Beelzebub's Tales but he would have fit in even worse with the rest of them.

I also left out writers of more or less pure genre fiction, so no Philip K. Dick, Stanislaw Lem, H. P. Lovecraft and many others for that reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 07:26
Originally posted by Quinino Quinino wrote:

Philip Roth, Updike, ...?

I just read, for the first time, ON THE ROAD AGAIN. and totally loved it, and about the same time I saw that film about the FURTHER bus and its trip ... and yeah ... it stood out, although I see Updike as a massive chronicler of a time and place (California for sure!), in general, I am not sure that he was as important otherwise. In many ways, Updike is the ideal/romantic vision of the early 1960's California that went on to become the psychedelic daze ... of which Ken Kesey is also a part, btw.

Roth, deserves better, as he is liked in America, mostly because of the films made of his books, but in general, he is totally under-read and under-appreciated. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Quinino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 07:05
Philip Roth, Updike, ...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 06:54
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Multiple votes allowed.
Hi,

Using Chrome and multiples are not allowed. The dot moves to the other choice.

Thx

Of this list I have read, Beckett, Borges, Burroughs, Conrad, Faulkner, Gide, Hemingway, Hesse, Joyce, Kafka,, Mann, Miller, Orwell, Solzhenitsyn and Vonegut.

There are a couple of them that I miss, and they would be Aldous Huxley for sure, and Gabriel Garcia Marquez, specially as Huxley was such an influence to what became known as "progressive music" in the earlier days, through at least one group.

There are other "novelists" that won't get a mention, but I happen to like Carlos Castaneda, although some folks might not think of that as "fiction", but the stories as told are amazing and rival any writer in the "occult" field, left and right in terms of depth and detail ... no one has been able to detail so many internal events as well, although he did take an approach that some folks do not like. If he had taken a more Harry Potter approach, his books would have been enjoyed a bit more, but they didn't ... they remained mired in the "academic" stratosfear, for regular folks to be able to enjoy them.

Henry Miller is one whose work I am appreciating the most lately, and believe it or not it was a movie that got me sent over to him ... (HENRY AND JUNE) ... and his way has always been interesting, but all of a sudden, it has a different touch.

I like Herman Hesse a lot, and will also pay my respects to Burroughs as he is a very great influence in a lot of rock music as well ... his work was used and appreciated by quite a few rock musicians.

Charles Bukowski is the odd one out, and he was enjoyed and preferred more by film makers than he was by anyone else during his time. jean-Luc Godard used him extensively in one film. Barbet Schroeder based BARFLY on Bukowski. Marco Ferreri made a film based on his short stories, and his work is also mentioned by a heck of a long list of rock bands. Of all the writers mentioned, he seems to show up a lot more times. 

Some of the bigger names have had their stories filmed and such, but in many ways, the work of Bukowski, has been almost subliminal, as it does not exactly say ... written by .... but the influence of its moments and stories is in a lot of places. 

Hard to say that about the better known writers out there, with the exception of Burroughs, who was a major contributor to a lot of the ideas and thoughts that brought out what became known as "progressive" music, through the art circles around him. Stories are still around that he was along with Ginsberg and others in a house owned by some Canterbury folks, and that PF, SM, GONG and others came and went left and right, not to mention the number of actors and actresses around. Of course, for the sake of propriety and our pristine ideals about "stars" and well known folks, maybe it is better that those stories not be around, lest we find who was sleeping with who ... and I say ... so what ... who cares ... when you are young, you enjoy life ... when you get older you criticize and hide it?



Edited by moshkito - October 10 2018 at 07:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vompatti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 23:05
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Interesting list......how did you pick those particular ones?

At any rate I enjoyed reading Hesse, Miller, Burroughs, and Vonnegut over the years.....


It's a combination of my personal favourites and the ones I consider the most significant.

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

No Umberto Eco?

He probably should have been on the list instead of Borges since Borges didn't even write any novels, oops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 17:58
^Great writer...loved his first two novels....I'm also a fan of Ian Banks, JGBallard, and John Fowles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 17:06
No Umberto Eco?
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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