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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 03:08 |
Easy Money wrote:
^ At this point only a few people who were there know for sure who was responsible, but given their on going track record, ruling out the Russian government and KGB Putin is just naive, or some kind of devoted Russian government fan-boyism. Just ask anyone from Russia or Eastern Europe about what kind of extremes Putin is willing to go for to extend Russian government ambitions. |
The question is, as always: Cui bono? Certainly not the Russians, as you can see by this reaction. And I have my doubts that they are so stupid they did not foresee this reaction if they were behind it. Anyway, I did not rule out anything; I merely said there is no proof at all. The one who is ruling out anything but one scenario is Theresa May. And the ones who are naive are those that blindly believe an accusation for which there is no proof at all.
Edited by BaldFriede - April 06 2018 at 03:11
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: April 06 2018 at 02:58 |
I for one couldn't be more glad that we have such an upstanding man as Mr. Putin to defend Europe against NATO and American imperialism.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 20:35 |
^ At this point only a few people who were there know for sure who was responsible, but given their on going track record, ruling out the Russian government and KGB Putin is just naive, or some kind of devoted Russian government fan-boyism. Just ask anyone from Russia or Eastern Europe about what kind of extremes Putin is willing to go for to extend Russian government ambitions.
Edited by Easy Money - April 05 2018 at 21:56
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10261
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 15:54 |
Proof that it really was the Russians who were behind the attack does actually not exist, and it is by no means the only plausible explanation (as is claimed by the British prime minister). We just watched a TV-documentation about it.
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 13:41 |
^ Get out of the senate and into the street. What I commented on was public opinion, hence mindset, not state doctrines. But let's go a bit further:
" Quoting Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale and scope. This very recent incident and the subsequent expulsions demonstrate clearly the West's (at least that of its corrupted diplomats) modern mindset towards Russia." Yes, once again someone, in this case you, is crying over poor little Russia who is now getting abused by the West. You read these words and speak these words, but don't comprehend what you are saying.
Edited by SteveG - April 05 2018 at 13:49
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 13:03 |
" It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do." Are you out of your mind? This is how the diplomatic puppets of the US (almost all from Western countries) stupidly and so readily, despite lack of evidence, reacted to the UK's antics. Read this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/03/27/here-are-all-the-countries-that-just-expelled-russian-diplomats/?utm_term=.87573fea890a Quoting Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale and scope. This very recent incident and the subsequent expulsions demonstrate clearly the West's (at least that of its corrupted diplomats) modern mindset towards Russia. "They were smart enough" They are smart enough to not give in to Theresa May's and Nikki Haley's petty finger-pointing
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 07:45 |
Easy Money wrote:
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator. |
Sadly, Em, you are a voice of reason crying out in a wilderness of ignorance. It is part of the modern Western mindset to view Russia as the victim now instead of the aggressor, just as Russia always wanted the West to do. They were smart enough to know that we, the West, would sabotage our ability to reason with little effort from Puttin and his criminal state. Sadly, we are that dumb.
Edited by SteveG - April 05 2018 at 07:47
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 07:31 |
Poor little peace loving Russia, why would anyone have anything against a country with such good intentions towards its neighboring countries. If you want to know the truth about Putin and the Russian government ask anyone who is from Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine etc. They do not have any delusions about this dictator.
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:18 |
[/QUOTE]Maybe it was used to make the Russians look suspicious as a distraction?[/QUOTE] A distraction from what? Does the UK, or any government, have to set up the Russians to make Putin and his police state look worse than it is?[/QUOTE]
Russia
is a big nuclear-weapon state (most stockpiles) and some Western countries don’t like that. They want the
monopoly of nuclear weapons. Hence the Russophobia, the ongoing war in Syria to weaken Russia and her allies etc.
Edited by Blaqua - April 05 2018 at 06:19
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24295
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:16 |
Blacksword wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. It also not coincidental how many anti-Putin politicians, activists, exiled spies, etc. have ended up murdered. And that specific sort of poison, the danger in handling it, and the expertise required in planting it? It's like Putin put up a billboard festooned with neon lights in Piccadilly. |
Makes you wonder why another method of attack wasn't used. As you say, handling the substane is precarious and dangerous, and a successful kill was also not guaranteed. Surely if the Kremlin wanted this man dead, he'd be dead.
Of course, it may be that Putin actually wanted to be the main suspect, and wanted the world to take notice that he was serious about dealing with 'traitors' and didn't care about the consequences. |
I don't see why Putin should order a review exercise on a retired spy and his daughter. We know since the days of Litvinenko, who was still active, that he is very capable of eliminating his opponents. It may be more than just an itchy feeling under my tin foil hat that the order for this assassination was signed with green ink and executed by some 00-number, according to the Blaqua-scenario, given today's political constellation and the pacemaking against Russia by state controlled media in the US and the EU.
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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:11 |
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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 06:08 |
Blaqua wrote:
"Makes you wonder why another method of attack wasn't used. As you say, handling the substane is precarious and dangerous, and a successful kill was also not guaranteed. Surely if the Kremlin wanted this man dead, he'd be dead. "Spot-on! if the Russians were the perpetrators or involved in this attack in any way, they wouldn't have complicated the operation by using a very lethal, precarious, tell-tale because Russian-made, chemical weapon, which could jeopardize the lives of others including that of his Russian daughter.
Read here https://www.thejournal.ie/novichok-cant-prove-was-made-in-russia-3938011-Apr2018/ “not verified the precise source” of the substance." But so many Russian diplomats have already been expelled. Quoting the washingtonpost.com, Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale and scope. (!!) UK government = Factory of Truth & Trust |
To be fair, to them it was probably the straw that broke the camels back; Russia has been getting away with obnoxious behavior for a longer time now.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20604
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 05:55 |
twseel wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. | Maybe it was used to make the Russians look suspicious as a distraction? |
A distraction from what? Does the UK, or any government, have to set up the Russians to make Putin and his police state look worse than it is?
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 05:36 |
" Makes you wonder why another method of attack wasn't used. As you say, handling the substane is precarious and dangerous, and a successful kill was also not guaranteed. Surely if the Kremlin wanted this man dead, he'd be dead. "Spot-on! if the Russians were the perpetrators or involved in this attack in any way, they wouldn't have complicated the operation by using a very lethal, precarious, tell-tale because Russian-made, chemical weapon, which could jeopardize the lives of others including that of his Russian daughter.
Read here https://www.thejournal.ie/novichok-cant-prove-was-made-in-russia-3938011-Apr2018/ “not verified the precise source” of the substance." But so many Russian diplomats have already been expelled. Quoting the washingtonpost.com, Affecting at least 151 people, it is the largest expulsion
of Russian diplomats since the Cold War — and virtually unprecedented in scale
and scope. (!!) UK government = Factory of Truth & Trust
Edited by Blaqua - April 05 2018 at 05:40
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 05:03 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. It also not coincidental how many anti-Putin politicians, activists, exiled spies, etc. have ended up murdered. And that specific sort of poison, the danger in handling it, and the expertise required in planting it? It's like Putin put up a billboard festooned with neon lights in Piccadilly. | Makes you wonder why another method of attack wasn't used. As you say, handling the substane is precarious and dangerous, and a successful kill was also not guaranteed. Surely if the Kremlin wanted this man dead, he'd be dead. Of course, it may be that Putin actually wanted to be the main suspect, and wanted the world to take notice that he was serious about dealing with 'traitors' and didn't care about the consequences.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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twseel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2012
Location: abroad
Status: Offline
Points: 22767
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 04:03 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. |
Maybe it was used to make the Russians look suspicious as a distraction?
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Blaqua
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2016
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 242
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Posted: April 05 2018 at 02:15 |
The British authorities only deem highly likely that Russians
are behind this ridiculous affair and don’t
have evidence to support their accusations. And yet, both they and the US, before collecting evidence, before completing the reasonable series
of investigations, didn’t pass up the opportunity to IMMEDIATELY show their hate towards Russia
by castigating it, threatening for extreme measures (such as boycotting the world cup) and by expelling
many Russian diplomats. Russians showed willingness to cooperate with the British. They
asked for a sample of the very lethal (so lethal and yet both spy and daughter are
still alive) nerve agent and for a joint probe of this attack and requested also a visit to
the daughter; the British of course refused again and again to do so. But they did
not refuse to stage an anti-Putin incident just a few days before the Russian presidential
elections. Coincidence? Hell, no!! Stay tuned, ahead of the world cup, for more
episodes of Russophobia Series!
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13058
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Posted: April 04 2018 at 18:17 |
The question one must ask oneself is why would anyone other than the Russians use such a poison to kill an ex-Russian spy? The answer is simply that no other assumption makes any sense. It also not coincidental how many anti-Putin politicians, activists, exiled spies, etc. have ended up murdered. And that specific sort of poison, the danger in handling it, and the expertise required in planting it? It's like Putin put up a billboard festooned with neon lights in Piccadilly.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: April 04 2018 at 13:09 |
Us regular folks will probably never know the truth, but given Putin's long time track record, he is certainly capable of something like this.
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13627
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Posted: April 04 2018 at 12:52 |
Easy Money wrote:
You don't know who committed that poisoning, you have absolutely no idea anymore than I do, but to say that the KGB or Russian government is absolutely not one of many possible suspects is beyond naive. | It is indeed, John. However, the interview given to the British press by the director of Porton Down yesterday was naive in the extreme. What worries me even more is the fact that it was authorised by the Prime Minister's office. To have more than one arm of government stating definitively that Russia was absolutely responsible (the likeliest scenario) contradicted by the chief chemist of the country stating he can't say definitively where the damned stuff originated from is a tad embarrassing, to say the least. It has gone down lie a bucket of cold puke in some Western governments who supported us. Indeed, The Times reported today that May is struggling to hold the anti-Russian coalition together. To repeat, all the evidence is that Putin was responsible, or a state agency, which amounts to the same thing. However, as seems to be constantly the case in government these days, we really do not seem to help ourselves.
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