Prog elitists

It is not at all clear that 'pure' prog is advanced calculus to Floyd's high school algebra.  Where is Gentle Giant's Ninth Symphony-eque magnum opus?  They are also ultimately rock songs.  And I don't mean just in terms of genre, but the scope.  There is nothing that GG's complexity helps them express that Pink Floyd cannot.   On the contrary, I would argue that Pink Floyd are able to express more moods than GG even with their relative lack of complexity.  Music may have a mathematical element but it is not just maths.   If you want to reduce it to that, that's your look out, but don't try to present it as some sort of objective truth that you can impose on me.  

FYI I have GG's albums among many other prog rock bands so I am sorry but I do 'get' the music contrary to your condescension and have heard them more times than I can possibly keep count of.  But the way you have attempted to define hierarchy in music itself is extremely narrow in scope and seems to drill down on what interests you (and which you seem to presume should be all  that should interest anyone else).  For example, when classical compositions have vocals, they are technically unimpeachable and performed at a level out of the reach of ordinary singers.  The same certainly cannot be said of GG's vocals.  It's nobody's fault if they chose to be satisfied with the mediocrity of Derek Shulman.   It is possible for a listener to ignore his vocals and focus on the music, which is what I do.  But you cannot argue that it is not a valid complaint for a listener to criticise Shulman's vocals because it's there and it sucks.   So, holistically speaking, GG is not high level art any more than Floyd because it is deeply flawed (whereas Floyd at least circa DSOTM/WYWH were, for lack of a better word, limited) and this goes for most prog/rock (either flawed and/or limited).  I specifically bring up vocals because the common excuse made on behalf prog is that being instrument-oriented music, it doesn't need strong vocals but this begs the question why classical or jazz find use for vocal virtuosos. 

And that is just my opinion and you will have to live with it. 

So are you saying that because Pink Floyd had its pulse on what the masses could tolerate in the field of music that it is more sophisticated than music that only musicians could understand? I don't think you understand that those of us who are arguing against a hierarchy of prog do not dislike Pink Floyd. They are one of my favorite bands of all time just like all of you. However it is important to remember that there is music above and beyond the call of duty and just because you struck a chord with the masses (mostly non-musicians) doesn't mean your music is the most complex. Pink Floyd will always rule for what they accomplished but can you honestly say they are the most complex music you can think of?

There really isn't.  What you are doing again is substituting complexity for merit (though you claim otherwise) and also attaching a higher value to pure musical innovation than other aspects (like lyrics or production, where DSOTM was far reaching).  But it's the final product that listeners listen to.  I have said this before but it's not Floyd's fault if they understood better than their prog peers how to make a great studio album.  The great prog rock bands would probably leave Floyd in the dust live but making a point while still saying concise was not their strong suit.  How many dark compositions have Yes come up with over an entire career ?  Now consider that Floyd cover the gamut of emotions, whether it's the cynicism of Money, the anger of Us and Them or the fear and helplessness of Great Gig in the Sky.  If it was so easy, why couldn't nobody else think of it in 1973? 

Right you are about DSOTM but i think that the point of the argument is that it is claimed to be an entry level prog album. I would say it certainly is because it is accessible and catchy. Of course it is still complex and that is why it is classified as progressive rock and not garage rock. The fact of the matter is that ALL prog music is complex in it's own way but there is no doubt that there is a hierarchial order of complexity that begins somewhere around the easy going space rock of Pink Floyd or Porcupine Tree and goes all the way up to crazy weirdness such as Gentle Giant, Gorguts or Gnidrolog's first album.

What drives me crazy about these types of arguments is that there seems to be a competitive nature for some of those who like more complex music to demean those who don't. I see a lot of dissing the neo-prog crowd out there by those who like crazy extreme metal and vice versa. I'm lucky for whatever reason in that i like everything. I love the cheesy ballads of Barry Manilow, the Indian ragas of Ravi Shankar, the gansta rap of 2 Pac and also equally lucky that i love every strain of prog. I simply see no reason for anyone to get all hoity toity about music. If you don't understand the emotional context of neo-prog then you haven't spent the time to learn how to appreciate it. Same goes with crazy complexity of Gentle Giant, VDGG or whoever. All i can say is that some need to get off their high horse and just listen instead of blather on about something they don't understand.

How do you know that something doesn't have logic and you just don't get it? I mean seriously. Regarding progressive rock it is not unfair to call Pink Floyd an entry level position. It is highly accessible from a musical standpoint and one of the most popular bands ever. 

I would argue that most highly complex prog is not complex for complexity's sake but rather structurally engineered for those who absolutely love a challenge in their music and wish to treat it as a puzzle that needs to be solved. Some of the most complex albums i didn't get for several listens finally made sense after an effort. So in effect i would call most music lovers lazy in that they don't want to work to understand something. They seek instant gratification.

Of course there is absoutely nothing wrong with anyone liking any type of music. I personally love the simplicity of disco and pop but i also crave the challenge of the most complex music there is to be heard. Call me eclectic but band's like Gentle Giant are absolutely brilliant.