Why so much Genesis love? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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lazland

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 13:17

^ Actually, Ivan, there are some of us who listen to them from Trespass to CAS, and find something to enjoy in all of them

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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 13:01

Warthur wrote:

- It's also worth noting that Genesis aren't immune from criticism on here either - their pop albums are slammed just as hard as, say, some of Yes's missteps, or ELP's more egregious crimes against good taste. So, again, there's a certain extent to which it's just not true that Genesis are uniquely popular on here, though it'd be just as untrue to say that they're unpopular.

That's one of the most important points in favour of Genesis

Everybody knows that 5 or 4 men era Genesis is Prog, and 3 men era Genesis is POP (With 2 transitional albums).

Those who like Prog will listen from Trespass to W&W and maybe ATTW3 or Duke...Those who like Pop will listen from ABACAB to CAS

Gabriel and Hackett are immune to the critics of the Pop era and most people who love Pop era, never learned that Peter sang in the group or that Steve Hackett exists.

A Prog fan wouldn't buy a Genesis album to get 2 Prog songs and 7 pop songs, you know what you are paying for from the start and you get it.

If you slam the pop albums, the 5 men era will remain unpolluted, because we know it's a different band.

I'm not old enough to have ever watched a Prog Genesis concert and I dreamed for a last reunion, but today I thank Peter for avoiding it, he kept the magic and the mystery alive, we never saw a bald guy dressed as Rael or a fat Britannia...We will always see our bootleg quality DVD's of the costume concerts and imagine how great they were.

Yes missed that chance, they continued releasing less than average albums (for their level) and a presenting us group of old men trying to recreate what they did 40 years ago

When Yes retire, people will remember their last concert without Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Squire, but when we think in Genesis, we will always remember the golden era concerts...They will never grow old, they will always be remembered young and at their peak, while we saw Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, Kansas grow old and far from their peak.

Warthur wrote:

- Last but certainly not least, people love Genesis on here because their albums are really good. In particular, during their classic phase they had this extremely rare knack of being able to produce intricate music whilst at the same time not losing sight of the emotions or atmosphere they were trying to evoke. They might not have been as brash and bold and loud as ELP or King Crimson, but there's a depth to Genesis that few others - maybe VdGG and some of the RPI crowd - were ever able to capture. I can keep listening to them over and over again and still find something new in the music, even whilst though by now it's comfortingly familiar to me.

Honestly I never seen Genesis as accessible, Musical Box, Fountain of Salmacis, Can Utility, The Knife, Get 'em Out by Friday, are far more challenging than Your's is no Disgrace, Your Move or eve Siberian Khatru.

But you mentioned to basic words:

Emotion and atmospheres, this was something that Genesis had over all he rest of the bands

Michael678 View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 12:47

I'd pretty much agree with these statements regarding the love for Genesis, but I think they're not exactly one of the "all-time best" for me. King Crimson, Rush, Pink Floyd, and Yes are all higher than these guys for me.

Progrockdude

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 12:35

TGM: Orb wrote:

True to an extent, though they were certainly a reasonably successful act in their time. The reputation has kind of gone the other way to, say, ELP, which were colossally supergiant at the time and have kind of suffered retrospectively.

As someone who finds ELP kind of hit and miss (dug the debut album and side 1 of Tarkus, decidedly mixed feelings about everything that followed that), I think this is a particularly apt point.

To draw an analogy using both bands' keyboardists, Keith Emerson's spinning, knife-wielding, rockin'-the-Classics style is extremely flashy, really grabs your attention when you first hear it, and was quite novel at the time, even though it was pretty much the same schtick he'd used in The Nice cranked up to 11. Conversely, Tony Banks' keyboard playing has a subtlety to it which really rewards careful listening and repeated exposure. Personally, I find that once you take away the live showboating Emerson relies too much on the same tricks over and over again, whereas Banks' work in Genesis stands the test of time and repeated exposure much more.

To draw a shorter and much cruder analogy, it's like the difference between a one-night-stand and a marriage: what works for a brief, exciting bit of fun and what works for a long-term, involved relationship are often two very different things.

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 12:30

^ Good post Clap

Warthur

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 12:27

I suspect there's no one single factor that's made Genesis popular on this site so much as a combination of factors which come together. For instance, off the top of my head:

- It's worth noting that Genesis aren't *uniquely* popular on this site - classic-era Yes also gets a lot of love, for instance, and King Crimson have just as many albums in the top 10 as Genesis have (and Pink Floyd actually have more!). So part of it is that Genesis are lucky enough to be one of a small set of bands who were keystones of the original golden age of prog and whose work is consequently loved by a wide cross-section of fans.

- For us young'uns, you also have the fact that Genesis was a big influence on a lot of the early neo-prog groups. Not as much as the press made out with Marillion, mind (bar the Market Square Heroes version of Grendel, which in my view suffers from being produced as though it were a Genesis track), but the likes of IQ and Pendragon both dipped into that well, and a chain of subsequent bands from that day to this have done likewise. As a result, there's a swathe of us out there who came to prog through listening to bands with a Genesis influence who were very favourably impressed when we got around to checking out our heroes' heroes, if you see what I mean.

- Here's something which might ruffle some feathers: Genesis never marred the perfection of their prog era by turning back after they went pop. As a result, people were able to cling onto the hope that they'd return to prog, and tell themselves that if Genesis would just do one more album with Peter Gabriel (or even just a quick return to their Wind and Wuthering sound) it'd be glorious. Conversely, there's all too many bands out there who went pop in the 1980s, found that ran out of steam, and then returned to prog only to find that they couldn't quite recapture the magic of their 1970s material.

- Last but certainly not least, people love Genesis on here because their albums are really good. In particular, during their classic phase they had this extremely rare knack of being able to produce intricate music whilst at the same time not losing sight of the emotions or atmosphere they were trying to evoke. They might not have been as brash and bold and loud as ELP or King Crimson, but there's a depth to Genesis that few others - maybe VdGG and some of the RPI crowd - were ever able to capture. I can keep listening to them over and over again and still find something new in the music, even whilst though by now it's comfortingly familiar to me.

SteveG

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:54

^An excellent point as one can't deny their 'staying power', that's for sure.

TGM: Orb

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:51

SteveG wrote:

^Isn't that what I said? Barring Italy of course. But still not a worldwide smash phenomenon.

True to an extent, though they were certainly a reasonably successful act in their time. The reputation has kind of gone the other way to, say, ELP, which were colossally supergiant at the time and have kind of suffered retrospectively.

SteveG

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:42

^Isn't that what I said? Barring Italy of course. But still not a worldwide smash phenomenon.

Edited by SteveG - August 11 2015 at 10:46

TGM: Orb

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:41

SteveG wrote:

HackettFan wrote:

SteveG wrote:

^Don't forget that a lot of this love for Genesis was well after the fact. The most successful 'retro loved' prog band, IMHO.

For sure. That was exactly my point about them representing a lost age. After the fact certainly isn't unreal. Abraham Lincoln wasn't nearly so widely adored until he was assassinated. It's not uncommon for artists (painters, writers) to be more appreciated after they've passed away. Genesis is lucky to see some of their appreciation and legacy while they're still alive. But I think that the departure of PG and HF were seen as a sort of passing.

I'm not down playing Genesis because of their retroactive adoration, but I would like to point out the fact that band never had a world conquering album on the scale of CTTE, TAAB, or ELP's debut, and were not even as popular worldwide as KC when they released ITCotCK. They did have a good early following in the UK, but so did Monty Python's Flying Circus. They never had the killer album that the other super prog groups had, with the Lamb coming closest in critical terms but not really succeeding in worldwide sales.

The better question would be "Why so much love for Genesis years after the fact?"

The Gabriel albums were, like VDGG's stuff, really successful in Italy. Selling England By The Pound was very popular in the UK (charted higher than ITCotCK, for instance), and everyone in my parents' generation can sing a bit of 'I Know What I Like' to this day.

rogerthat

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:29

TGM: Orb wrote:

micky wrote:

easy listening prog.. non-offensive.. ie... not challenging. Easy to build up a large fanbase.. oh wait.. they didn't do until they discovered their true talents as pop masters supreme. It wasn't that far a turn for them anyway.

Why are you describing Yes? Wink

The real classic Genesis line-up, which doesn't include the two noticeably weaker albums after Gabriel's departure, did a lot of really weird out-there material more in line with some cross of Arthur Brown and music hall than with any of their contemporaries, as well as a lot of extraordinary little pieces that don't sound 'prog' (Harlequin stands out).

Well, it may be weird for the kind of theatrical enactment approach or whatever you could call it of Gabriel. But speaking musically, there is hardly any dissonance in their music and it's mostly all very tightly put together. Have heard that Banks doesn't like to change a note in live performances and if that is the case, it's a marked contrast from the other big bands of prog. Even Yes did have a bit of playfulness in their live act. So I guess it's all about whether people relate to the vocal aspect of Genesis or the musical side.

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 10:13

Guldbamsen wrote:

I don't care really all I know is that they created something unique and powerful back in the 70s, and I love spinning it from time to time.
I also think PA has this thing about bashing prog acts who get 'too big for their own good'. We like our bands to be big and widely known......but not too much because what about The Clouds and Cressida and satan with his icecubemix. DT, SWilson, Meal Norse and so forth have all been through the ring and have taken their punches, some more than others.

You lost me on this one David. As far as I'm concerned, all prog acts are cult acts regardless if they're newbies or almost forgotten dinosaurs.

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 09:46

To me, Genesis' best stuff is the stuff that never gets mentioned - Fountain of Salmacis, Can Utility and the Coastliners, Anyway ...

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Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 09:39

I don't care really all I know is that they created something unique and powerful back in the 70s, and I love spinning it from time to time.
I also think PA has this thing about bashing prog acts who get 'too big for their own good'. We like our bands to be big and widely known......but not too much because what about The Clouds and Cressida and satan with his icecubemix. DT, SWilson, Meal Norse and so forth have all been through the ring and have taken their punches, some more than others.

I get it though. It's irritating to see people continuing to talk about the same stuff over and over and over again. 'How about that Musical Box eh?' -especially when there is sooooooo much more thrilling and infinitely beautiful music out there.

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SteveG

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 09:15

HackettFan wrote:

SteveG wrote:

^Don't forget that a lot of this love for Genesis was well after the fact. The most successful 'retro loved' prog band, IMHO.

The better question would be "Why so much love for Genesis years after the fact?"

Edited by SteveG - August 11 2015 at 10:10

TGM: Orb

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 09:07

Why are you describing Yes? Wink

Moogtron III View Drop Down

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 09:02

chopper wrote:

For me, Genesis had a magic that no other band really has. It was Nursery Cryme that drew me and a lot of it was due to the bizarre stories in the lyrics - hogweeds, people getting their heads knocked off with mallets, people cutting their toes off. As for the music, it was the climax of Musical Box that hooked me - it's still possibly the greatest ending in prog. Their run of albums from Trespass to The Lamb is only matched by Yes (The Yes Album to Going For The One) imo.

Exactly, and my personal list is even longer: Trespass -> Three Sides Live

With Yes: Debut -> 90125

TGM: Orb

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 08:57

Big Kid Josie wrote:

OK, I am prepared to get flamed for this but: why so much Genesis love on this forum?

I actually love Genesis's work, particularly SEBTP and the 2 post-Gabriel albums before Hackett left---TOTT and WAW. I think they're a great 70's prog band and up there with Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Rush, et al. I get that Banks is a fine, elegant keyboardist, Collins a great prog drummer in their early days, and Hackett an original guitarist who made some beautiful, melancholy olde English ballads. I absolutely love Entangled, Blood on the Rooftops, Carpet Crawlers, Cinema Show, etc. I like Gabriel with Genesis, but actually like his early solo work even better. I don't like at all what Collins turned Genesis into, but I don't hold that against the band in their 70's prime either. I see them as 2 totally different bands, with Hackett and without him.

But I don't understand why they are lauded on this site above all those other fine 70's prog bands...can someone enlighten me? It's not that I don't think they're a great band, just not better than the others I mentioned above...

Early Genesis was an extraordinary band with a really unique blend of stuff at its peak with the big emphasis on the 12 strings and harmonies and occasional flute or tambourine for that pastoral English sound, Hackett's devotion to playing classical pieces on guitar as well as pioneering double-tapping stuff and atmospheric slide work, Peter Gabriel's soul-inspired voice and lyrical oddness giving it an intimacy Yes, King Crimson, ELP etc. never had. I think this video gives a good idea of how the band as a whole works.

Now, if you don't buy the stories/lyrics/vox I don't think you'll get it but if you do it's just something that a lot of the big prog bands could never really do.

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 08:38

It's a good question and I certainly don't have the answer. All I know is I'm tired of hearing about them and their imitators burned me out on their sound. Can't we discuss Trojan Horse or Bent Knee or something? That stuff is truly exciting. :)

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chopper

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Posted: August 11 2015 at 07:37

For me, Genesis had a magic that no other band really has. It was Nursery Cryme that drew me and a lot of it was due to the bizarre stories in the lyrics - hogweeds, people getting their heads knocked off with mallets, people cutting their toes off. As for the music, it was the climax of Musical Box that hooked me - it's still possibly the greatest ending in prog. Their run of albums from Trespass to The Lamb is only matched by Yes (The Yes Album to Going For The One) imo.