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Angelo View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 11:56
Frickin' record industry...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 11:19
Yup, bunch of her solo stuff from the 90s, in fact.  Sadly not Annie in Wonderland or Still Life as it seems she doesn't own the rights to those albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 11:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 11:10
That might be a Western/rock thing (re preference for high pitched vocals).   In India/Pakistan, baritones were more popular for the longest time and if errmm there were enough decent ones today, they probably still would be more popular.  Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, one of Jeff Buckley's inspirations, tended to sing pretty high but the famous ghazal greats Mehdi Hassan and Ghulam Ali were/are baritones and most of our Hindustani classical singers are as well.  I love a great baritone like Jim Morrison too, wish there could have been more of them in rock.  

Strangely enough, in the sub continent, female singers, whether in film playback or classical music, earned a lot of respect for their talents and looks played a negligible role, if at all, for the most part.  It should have been even more difficult for them to succeed given that the males sang lower than male singers in the West.  But listeners here are not so quick to presume that a band/composer must have hired a female singer for her looks as I have sometimes found to be the case in rock.  


Edited by rogerthat - December 11 2014 at 11:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 06:07
Originally posted by Star_Song_Age_Less Star_Song_Age_Less wrote:


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Star_Song_Age_Less Star_Song_Age_Less wrote:

 Geez, when was the last time you saw a female name credited as the composer of a movie's soundtrack, or a conductor?  I'm coming up with a big fat 0.  I bet they're out there, but I've never run across one and I am a person who looks for music.
First that springs to mind is of course Nancy Wilson who scored several soundtracks for her (then) husband Cameron Crowe.

While not often being sole-composer, Lisa Gerrard has also scored a number of films.

Viola player Jocelyn Pook has written many soundtracks, including contributing to Eyes Wide Shut for Stanley Kubric, whose daughter Vivian composed the soundtrack to Full Metal Jacket.

We should not forget Björk's film work, especially Dancer In The Dark.

But I think the most successful female soundtrack composer (something over 80 film and tv soundtracks) is probably Rachel Portman who was won many awards for her work, including a Oscar for Emma and has been was awarded an OBE for her contribution to music.


Did a quick look-up of Rachel Portman.  The only one of the films on her list that I had seen was Emma, which I didn't like.  I actually never saw Eyes Wide Shut or Full Metal Jacket, either.
I'm big fan of Jane Austen's writing but have yet to see a film that captures her sharp social observation and subtle wit. However I think Portman's soundtrack for Emma was rather good. Given the huge list of films she has scored I'm a little surprised that Emma is the only one you've seen because she's written music for some pretty famous (and popular) films [Sirens, Benny & Joon, Road to Wellville, Palookaville, Chocolat, Marvin's Room, Lake House, The Cider House Rules, etc., etc.] I'm also a big fan of Soundtracks, they are a unique form of music that is not intended to be intrusive or overpowering but enhancing and complimentary and that's a special skill, which is why I don't care for John William's soundtracks but adore soundtacks by people like Vangelis, Morricone and Glass. 

Not exactly "on-topic" and probably one for the "Obscure Prog Facts" thread, but Rachel Portman has an oblique prog connection ... she is a Charterhouse alumni (the school became co-ed in the 1970s, long after Rutherford, Banks, Gabriel, McPhail and Philips had left).

One other female soundtrack composer I've just remembered: Wendy Carlos.

Anyway, as you rightly said, music is a male-dominated art-form across the board and not just Progressive Rock, but that does not imply that it is written for men alone. Discussion on how and why certain forms of music are favoured more by one gender than the other will tend to be dominated by crass generalisations and gender-stereotyping and that's not going to resolve anything. It has to be noted that Progressive Rock is a minority genre with males and females alike. To be frank, I'm struggling to imagine what Prog (or practically any minority music genre) would sound like if written by men for women, by women for women or by women for men. Kate Bush can sing of this woman's world and men can (and do) relate to that at some level, if not the same level. The same is true of Alice Cooper's Only Women Bleed, whether sung by Vince himself or Tori Amos, (though that said, it probably carries more poignancy when sung by Tina Turner). 

The singing voice is the only musical sound where we can clearly identify the gender of the performer (unless it's Angela Gossow...Wink) - when a female picks up a guitar and plays there is nothing in the playing that singles it out as being feminine or gender-specific [thinking of Amanda Lehmann (Steve Hacket band) and Lori Linstruth (Guilt Machine, Stream of Passion)], the same is true of bass players, keyboardists and drummers. 

So when a female singer sings we can tell the gender without having to look, and we can appreciate it regardless of the image or the singers appearance. We (as listeners) often tend to prefer singers who sing in a higher-register regardless of our own gender, for example Robert Plant, Matt Bellamy, Thijs van Leer, Jon Anderson, Jeff Buckley, etc., are popular high-octave male singers, but we don't mistake them for females. However, this preference does favour female singers and I think that many of the female-fronted rock bands would be less popular if they had male singers. While non-singing male musicians dominate (in a typical orchestra that's something like 3:1 and much, much worse in popular music), the number of female vocalists, especially in Pop Music, is much higher and I do not believe this is solely attributed to looks and image. That's not to say that an attractive singer (female or male) does not have an advantage, of course they do - that is human nature and smart marketing.



Edited by Dean - December 11 2014 at 07:22
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 02:48
crumpets and tea yay!Big smile yumHug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 02:44
only thing missing here is the cowbell but wow yay yes yay! whooohaaaa! ShockedClapHug

Edited by Kati - December 11 2014 at 02:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 02:35
Originally posted by Star_Song_Age_Less Star_Song_Age_Less wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

drum machine? I doubt that Phil Collins who is foremost a brilliant drummer would be content with anything not real sounding like a drum machine. Confused  


And yet, he was. Smile  "Duke was the real transition from their 1970s progressive rock sound to the 1980s pop era.[28] The use of a drum machine became a consistent element on subsequent Genesis albums, as well as on Collins's solo releases. The first Genesis song to feature a drum machine was the Duke track "Duchess". The more commercial Duke was well received by the mainstream media, and was the band's first UK number one album, while the tracks "Misunderstanding" and "Turn It On Again" became live performance favourites. The drum machine Roland CR-78 that Collins used to make the sound effects on Duke, his first solo album Face Value, and the Brand X song "Wall to Wall" was also used on Phillips' album 1984 in 1981."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29

Phil Collins is a good drummer, but the repetitive nature of the drum machine altered Genesis' music, and not in a way that I like.  Don't get me wrong, I still find some of the stuff catchy, I just don't put it in the same category.

And now the topic is way off the rails.
you are naughty and this is for you, Star_Song_Age_LessWink hugs Hug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 02:12
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

drum machine? I doubt that Phil Collins who is foremost a brilliant drummer would be content with anything not real sounding like a drum machine. Confused  


And yet, he was. Smile  "Duke was the real transition from their 1970s progressive rock sound to the 1980s pop era.[28] The use of a drum machine became a consistent element on subsequent Genesis albums, as well as on Collins's solo releases. The first Genesis song to feature a drum machine was the Duke track "Duchess". The more commercial Duke was well received by the mainstream media, and was the band's first UK number one album, while the tracks "Misunderstanding" and "Turn It On Again" became live performance favourites. The drum machine Roland CR-78 that Collins used to make the sound effects on Duke, his first solo album Face Value, and the Brand X song "Wall to Wall" was also used on Phillips' album 1984 in 1981."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29

Phil Collins is a good drummer, but the repetitive nature of the drum machine altered Genesis' music, and not in a way that I like.  Don't get me wrong, I still find some of the stuff catchy, I just don't put it in the same category.

And now the topic is way off the rails.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 02:08
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

One could say that most women don't really go for Prog because it can be demanding in terms of listening pleasure ; odd time sigs, strange instrumentation, loooong songs, and general weirdness that goes on.

Women can't deal with demanding listening and men can? Confused  Something I'm missing here?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:48
Originally posted by Star_Song_Age_Less Star_Song_Age_Less wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

One could say that most women don't really go for Prog because it can be demanding in terms of listening pleasure ; odd time sigs, strange instrumentation, loooong songs, and general weirdness that goes on.
I do know females that like Genesis, even Gabriel era, Yes, Floyd etc. but I've never come across a chick who loves Caravan, VDGG, Magma........


I think this is the reason most people in general don't go for prog, really.  Lazy listeners who want to use music only as a mood regulator and not as an art form.

Genesis was way better when Peter Gabriel was singing.  The drum machine killed them dead.

There's an obscurity problem with that list.  I really couldn't tell you if I liked Magma at all, for example, because I've never listened to them, nor have I run across them in a non-forum environment.  (Heard the others only a little).  Can't really help liking the bands that I've heard a lot vs. the ones I've heard rarely or never.  I can tell you that I love Opeth (Deliverance and prior, yes please), which doesn't exactly fall on the easy-to-listen-to side of the scale.

So lots of people put up a lot of suggestions for "queen of prog" but so far it seems that most people are saying either Kate Bush or Annie Haslam, though that might be since those names were in the first post.  And there are certainly some people whom I've never heard.  I checked out one of them - Natasha Khan - a bit so far - first impression is "nice" but nothing struck me.  Did anyone else listen to some of the suggestions on here so far?


drum machine? I doubt that Phil Collins who is foremost a brilliant drummer would be content with anything not real sounding like a drum machine. Confused  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:36
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

One could say that most women don't really go for Prog because it can be demanding in terms of listening pleasure ; odd time sigs, strange instrumentation, loooong songs, and general weirdness that goes on.
I do know females that like Genesis, even Gabriel era, Yes, Floyd etc. but I've never come across a chick who loves Caravan, VDGG, Magma........


I think this is the reason most people in general don't go for prog, really.  Lazy listeners who want to use music only as a mood regulator and not as an art form.

Genesis was way better when Peter Gabriel was singing.  The drum machine killed them dead.

There's an obscurity problem with that list.  I really couldn't tell you if I liked Magma at all, for example, because I've never listened to them, nor have I run across them in a non-forum environment.  (Heard the others only a little).  Can't really help liking the bands that I've heard a lot vs. the ones I've heard rarely or never.  I can tell you that I love Opeth (Deliverance and prior, yes please), which doesn't exactly fall on the easy-to-listen-to side of the scale.

So lots of people put up a lot of suggestions for "queen of prog" but so far it seems that most people are saying either Kate Bush or Annie Haslam, though that might be since those names were in the first post.  And there are certainly some people whom I've never heard.  I checked out one of them - Natasha Khan - a bit so far - first impression is "nice" but nothing struck me.  Did anyone else listen to some of the suggestions on here so far?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:22
^ Pure joy
Nice one, cutie-pie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:18
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Plus, I saw a pic of you proudly showing off your Beardfish LP - when I stared at the pic, I really shook my head in amazement. You blow me away !! Cool, too cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:16
^ Plus, I saw a pic of you proudly showing off your Beardfish LP - when I stared at the pic, I really shook my head in amazement. You blow me away !! Cool, too cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:13
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Kati !! You are an exception to the rule. I've said it before, you have incredible knowledge of Prog, and music in general. And AMAZING taste......plus an awesome artist. Too many great things....
Awww Tom you are too cute flattering, I could eat you up right now! Thank you very much, huge hug Hugand another big tight hug Hug 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:09
Kati !! You are an exception to the rule. I've said it before, you have incredible knowledge of Prog, and music in general. And AMAZING taste......plus an awesome artist. Too many great things....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 01:04
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

One could say that most women don't really go for Prog because it can be demanding in terms of listening pleasure ; odd time sigs, strange instrumentation, loooong songs, and general weirdness that goes on.
I do know females that like Genesis, even Gabriel era, Yes, Floyd etc. but I've never come across a chick who loves Caravan, VDGG, Magma........
are you saying that I am an alien or weird???? Stern Smile umhpft WinkConfused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 00:58
One could say that most women don't really go for Prog because it can be demanding in terms of listening pleasure ; odd time sigs, strange instrumentation, loooong songs, and general weirdness that goes on.
I do know females that like Genesis, even Gabriel era, Yes, Floyd etc. but I've never come across a chick who loves Caravan, VDGG, Magma........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2014 at 00:55
I am not fond of Annie Haslam's  voice, but respect those who do. Thus to me she is not comparable to Kate Bush whose vocals I do love. Stern SmileThumbs UpHug
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