Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down

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Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:43

^^^ Of course you would say all of that. Yes I have heard Discipline and I bet you can agree that Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair sound similar? Meaning that the eclecticism is limited. Let me bring about the PA definition of this "subgenre":

Eclectic Prog combines hybrids of style and diversity of theme, promoting many elements from different sources. The Eclectic category recognizes bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core.

I honestly don't hear a difference between anything from Discipline- TOAPP. Same goes for Thrak-TPTB

Well it is true that they have "evolved" but so many other bands have too

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 17 2013 at 05:44

“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

Dean

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Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:40

random thoughts:

King Crimson play Crimson Prog. Van der Graaf Generator play Van der Graaf Generator Prog. Gentle Giant play Gentle Giant Prog.

Every Prog band plays eclectic Prog, that is pretty much the thumb-nail description of Prog. Like Progressive the noun is not the same as progressive the adjective, Eclectic the noun is not the same as eclectic the adjective.

Eclectic Prog is another name for a sub-division of Art Rock that we invented. Any band that we put in that subgenre goes towards defining the subgenre

What?

Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:32

Yeah, I was just about to post something similar as you Steve, but you did it far better than I could ever do.

Over the years people seem to have bought into the stickers and made up genres, and while I do think they have their usage when we're talking music on the forum and we need an easy go-to description, sometimes they backfire on our behinds.

In regards to the op: have you ever heard Discipline? The album practically spawned the math rock scene some 20+ years before it's "conception". Discipline also quite neatly taps into the post punk/ no wave of the early 80s, albeit conveyed in a far more esoteric dressing. Some of it is almost ambient, while other parts are downright snarling and heavy. Is it electronic at heart then? The electronic percussion Bruford experimented with does suggest that, but then again we also get fed big fat guitar riffs, melodic tunes akin to pop ballads, and something like The Sheltering Sky that defies just about any sticker you care to throw at it.

Oh and don't even get me started on Thrak and The ConstruKction of Light....

Lastly, why is this thread posted in general music discussions? I mean, surely we can agree on Fripp and his endless noodling cohorts can be described as a prog proper act eh?

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

lazland

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Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:18

Eclectic prog is a sub-genre entirely of our own making. It did not exist at all at the time KC were about in the 1970's.

Crimson were one of the archetypal art rock/progressive rock bands in that first wave. Quite honestly, what you want to call them now is somewhat irrelevant. They are classified the way they are here, and in terms of that classification structure, eclectic is about the best fit.

Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down

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Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:09

Before you guys go on and bash me about not really liking King Crimson's music let's think about this critically. I have been having this thought surrounding my mind. Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? I do consider their work in the 1970s to be as eclectic as anyone but what about the rest of their career? I do not see any eclecticism in anything since Red in 1974.Step into this discussion to make your assertion about it. This is my assertion. I don't really consider them Eclectic Prog. What about you?

“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

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ProgMetaller2112 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145	Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:43
	^^^ Of course you would say all of that. Yes I have heard Discipline and I bet you can agree that Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair sound similar? Meaning that the eclecticism is limited. Let me bring about the PA definition of this "subgenre": Eclectic Prog combines hybrids of style and diversity of theme, promoting many elements from different sources. The Eclectic category recognizes bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core. I honestly don't hear a difference between anything from Discipline- TOAPP. Same goes for Thrak-TPTB Well it is true that they have "evolved" but so many other bands have too Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 17 2013 at 05:44
	“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

Dean Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575	Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:40
	random thoughts: King Crimson play Crimson Prog. Van der Graaf Generator play Van der Graaf Generator Prog. Gentle Giant play Gentle Giant Prog. Every Prog band plays eclectic Prog, that is pretty much the thumb-nail description of Prog. Like Progressive the noun is not the same as progressive the adjective, Eclectic the noun is not the same as eclectic the adjective. Eclectic Prog is another name for a sub-division of Art Rock that we invented. Any band that we put in that subgenre goes towards defining the subgenre
	What?

Guldbamsen Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104	Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:32
	Yeah, I was just about to post something similar as you Steve, but you did it far better than I could ever do. Over the years people seem to have bought into the stickers and made up genres, and while I do think they have their usage when we're talking music on the forum and we need an easy go-to description, sometimes they backfire on our behinds. In regards to the op: have you ever heard Discipline? The album practically spawned the math rock scene some 20+ years before it's "conception". Discipline also quite neatly taps into the post punk/ no wave of the early 80s, albeit conveyed in a far more esoteric dressing. Some of it is almost ambient, while other parts are downright snarling and heavy. Is it electronic at heart then? The electronic percussion Bruford experimented with does suggest that, but then again we also get fed big fat guitar riffs, melodic tunes akin to pop ballads, and something like The Sheltering Sky that defies just about any sticker you care to throw at it. Oh and don't even get me started on Thrak and The ConstruKction of Light.... Lastly, why is this thread posted in general music discussions? I mean, surely we can agree on Fripp and his endless noodling cohorts can be described as a prog proper act eh?
	“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams

lazland Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13699	Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:18
	Eclectic prog is a sub-genre entirely of our own making. It did not exist at all at the time KC were about in the 1970's. Crimson were one of the archetypal art rock/progressive rock bands in that first wave. Quite honestly, what you want to call them now is somewhat irrelevant. They are classified the way they are here, and in terms of that classification structure, eclectic is about the best fit.
	Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

ProgMetaller2112 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145	Posted: November 17 2013 at 05:09
	Before you guys go on and bash me about not really liking King Crimson's music let's think about this critically. I have been having this thought surrounding my mind. Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? I do consider their work in the 1970s to be as eclectic as anyone but what about the rest of their career? I do not see any eclecticism in anything since Red in 1974.Step into this discussion to make your assertion about it. This is my assertion. I don't really consider them Eclectic Prog. What about you?
	“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart