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Topic ClosedHow do you listen to music in the home?

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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2014 at 16:06
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Thanks for checking it Thumbs Up

I asked this to know what cartridge I should get if something appened to it or if I couldn't find other stylus to replace. In that case, if I understand correctly, I should get a light-weighted P-mount cartridge (since there's no counter weight), right?

I listened to The Yes Album yesterday to test the changes I made and the sound was incredible compared to how it was: no crackles, no noises and it all sounded crystal clear. I still have a problem I don't know what it is: sometimes between two songs I can hear an echo of the first song and I don't know if it's a problem of the record or the turntable Ermm
 
This is common, I am guessing what you hear is a faint sound of the start of the next song? What you hear is the true essence of analog recording LOL Usually comes from the tape bleed thru on the master reels, it is pressed in your LP you cannot remove it. The good thing is if you hear it well it is one sign of a good revealing analog deck, especially if the next song starts with a loud crescendo or something. Can also be due to thinner groove walls and your stylus is picking up the ripples in the next groove......I would say nothing is wrong with your table and cart.
 
The no crackles, noise, crystal clear means your arm/cart is well aligned and tracking the groove nicely. For a new stylus you can also upgrade to a JICO stylus from Japan, you will have to check their website if they make one for your cart.
 
Have fun and keep spinnin' them records!
 
Cheers!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2014 at 12:17
Thanks for checking it Thumbs Up

I asked this to know what cartridge I should get if something appened to it or if I couldn't find other stylus to replace. In that case, if I understand correctly, I should get a light-weighted P-mount cartridge (since there's no counter weight), right?

I listened to The Yes Album yesterday to test the changes I made and the sound was incredible compared to how it was: no crackles, no noises and it all sounded crystal clear. I still have a problem I don't know what it is: sometimes between two songs I can hear an echo of the first song and I don't know if it's a problem of the record or the turntable Ermm


Edited by Meltdowner - October 03 2014 at 12:42
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2014 at 11:34
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

If you don't mind SmileTT: Technics SL-BD20Cartridge: Technics P24 (it's the original, I changed the needle not the cartridge)Thanks Wink



So your SL-BD20 table according to VE has an effective arm mass of 13.5g including cartridge, since it is a P-mount system and also your VTF (tracking force) is fixed at 1.25g, you do not have a counter weight. Your overhang says 15mm but that should also be fixed again since this is a P-mount, but you can verify that. Overhang is the distance from the spindle to the stylus tip, if your arm will move that far.

Cartridge shows a dynamic compliance of 12x10*6 cm/dyne at 100Hz, since it is Japanese cart need to convert to 10Hz to get 21.6 dynamic, as that is what the VE calculator uses.

Those figures give you a 9.3112 resonance frequency, so your combo is good but not surprised since it is all Technics combo. You want to be in the 8Hz to 12Hz range, now this is just an estimate but usually pretty good. The best measurement is with a test record...I would only recommend one if you had a super high end TT/Cart/Arm combo and needed to match for different mfg.

You are in good shape!
Enjoy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 17:53
^Checky Devil!  Evil Smile
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 17:51
[QUOTE=Catcher10]

A common problem with cassette decks is the belt will need changing, it will gum up and stretch out too far to operate correctly, just open it up and look for it. That is a cheap easy fix to change the belt. [QUOTE]


What fixes the belt problem really well in cassette decks (and turntables) is DD.  


Edited by Argonaught - October 02 2014 at 17:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 17:11
If you don't mind Smile

TT: Technics SL-BD20
Cartridge: Technics P24 (it's the original, I changed the needle not the cartridge)

Thanks Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 17:01
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

^ I got it on Vinyl Engine; I didn't find anywhere else.I'll check the VTA and I didn't know what sibilance was until now, but I don't think a have this problem.By the way, how do I know if a cartridge is compatible with my turntable? Is there a standard reference for the format?



Yes on VE there is a cartridge resonance evaluator under Tools. Input your tonearm effective mass in grams and it will give you a chart where you can find the RF (resonant frequency) your combination falls in.
You need to know the total weight of your cartridge and mounting screws and the dynamic compliance of your cart.

The top row is the total cartridge weight. The left side is the dynamic compliance of the cartridge, which you need to find out from the mfg website or in the VE database.
Cross reference the two and as long as you are in the green you should be good. Better if you are in the middle of the range, keep in mind this is an estimate, but should be close as long as your input data is good.
I have an excel sheet I use also if you tell me the following I can also check it for you.

Effective Arm Mass
Cartridge Mass with screws, washers, nuts
Dynamic Compliance of your cartridge

Or just tell me what make/model of TT and cartridge you have and I can find myself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 16:23
^ I got it on Vinyl Engine; I didn't find anywhere else.
I'll check the VTA and I didn't know what sibilance was until now, but I don't think a have this problem.
By the way, how do I know if a cartridge is compatible with my turntable? Is there a standard reference for the format?
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 14:07
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:


It's sounds like a stone being dragged and it comes from the speakers.EDIT: I solved the problem. I downloaded the service manual and noticed that the tonearm was lower than it should be: the distance between the stylus and the disc should be between 5 to 7 mm and mine was at 4 mm


Ok I was gonna say check out Vinyl Engine website, they have almost all manuals and great information on turntables.

Your tonearm should be parallel to the vinyl, this is your VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle). From there you can make adjustments based on your ears of either tail up or down slightly. Also to adjust for sibilance if that is an issue.....Sssss should sound as natural as possible. Of course a hot recording cannot be adjusted for

Glad you fixed it! Enjoy...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 09:34
It's sounds like a stone being dragged and it comes from the speakers.

EDIT: I solved the problem. I downloaded the service manual and noticed that the tonearm was lower than it should be: the distance between the stylus and the disc should be between 5 to 7 mm and mine was at 4 mm


Edited by Meltdowner - October 02 2014 at 10:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 09:23
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

I never though about that, and it's cool now that I think about it TongueYou're
right, the cassette deck is from the 80s: my Pionner cassette deck from
the same set doesn't work, I'll see if I can figure out the problem one
of these days.I have a problem with my turntable though: it
makes some disturbing noises and I'm afraid that it might damage my
vinyls. I changed the cartridge two months ago and it still makes the
noises. Ermm



A common problem with cassette decks is the belt will need changing, it will gum up and stretch out too far to operate correctly, just open it up and look for it. That is a cheap easy fix to change the belt.

What noises are your table making? Is it motor noises or noises you hear coming thru the speakers?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2014 at 09:13
I never though about that, and it's cool now that I think about it Tongue
You're right, the cassette deck is from the 80s: my Pionner cassette deck from the same set doesn't work, I'll see if I can figure out the problem one of these days.

I have a problem with my turntable though: it makes some disturbing noises and I'm afraid that it might damage my vinyls. I changed the cartridge two months ago and it still makes the noises. Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2014 at 19:28
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

My humble analog system Embarrassed


Not humble at all, and very appropriate for listening to prog, because that's what your system would have looked like when prog was king, although I think your cassette deck is likely from the 1980s rather than 70s. 
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Edited by Argonaught - October 01 2014 at 19:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 05:39
^ I'll do some test in the simple way to see how it goes. Thanks for the ideas and explanation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 05:07
Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Embarrassed oops, my bad, I naturally assumed you'd have them further apart, I miss-identified the cable.

José is correct - they will sound less "chesty" if you raise them off the floor and the stereo image improve if you move them further apart, also tilting them back a little can sometimes make a big difference too.

Is there an easy and elegant way of raise them? I don't understand much about those kind of things Tongue
The elegant way is to get some speaker stands. 

The simple way of seeing if it makes a difference is to stand them on some books or a couple of house-bricks. The idea is to lessen the reflection off the floor and direct the sound more directly towards your ears, even with a rug or carpet the sound will be affected by such a close proximity of the speaker to any flat surface..
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2014 at 04:45
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Embarrassed oops, my bad, I naturally assumed you'd have them further apart, I miss-identified the cable.

José is correct - they will sound less "chesty" if you raise them off the floor and the stereo image improve if you move them further apart, also tilting them back a little can sometimes make a big difference too.

Is there an easy and elegant way of raise them? I don't understand much about those kind of things Tongue

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:


Yes makes sense...big room, hardwood floors, not much furniture..sound can be like you said since there is nothing to absorb.

Again, if you can, a rug or something like that will make the sound a bit warmer, not echoey as you describe.

Or headphones work!! Do you still use the cassette deck?

Or I could spend $54K on furniture LOL

I only used the cassette deck once to record some vinyl singles to cassette, but I only listened to that cassette once. I never liked that format much, I guess I'm too young to understand it Tongue
My mother uses it though; she has lots of cassettes

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:


Sound advice. Good to see this forum still active. Happy listening to both you (Jośe) and Sam.

Thanks! By the way, you were right when you said that my headphones were great with solid state amps Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2014 at 22:42
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Meltdowner Meltdowner wrote:

My humble analog system Embarrassed



Super nice!! Elevate the speakers a little and spread them maybe 1.2m to 1.8m apart to better the soundstage, if you can. You will be amazed at what experimenting with speaker placement will do.

Cheers~!


Sound advice. Good to see this forum still active. Happy listening to both you (Jośe) and Sam.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2014 at 21:49
Nice article Argonaught.....Its cool to see what people back in the day used for gear.
Rek-o-Kut tables, HH Scott are still in use by some diehard vintage devotees.
Considering the $54K includes cabinet work, probably not a bad price for that gear.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2014 at 21:34
And here be, dear friends, a money-is-no-object audiophile system for men of means and fine taste from the faraway 1960. The sad thing about this $54K (in 2014 dollars) system is that there was no prog to listen to!

 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2014 at 19:36
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

^ Nice!!...I believe that is a 4-track deck

Here is my Teac

Yes, the SD3030 is quadraphonic, so you can record on all 4 tracks independently and simultaneously, but I have never used it in that way. 

And your TEAC is an object of great envy and desire :)
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