How to Create a Pop Star

I have this feeling that Robert Wyatt said something about the Soft Machine wanted to be pop stars but they were no good at it or they thought they were pop and weren't any good.

dtguitarfan wrote: Dean wrote: The music business or the music industry - both names are fitting - it is a business and it is an industry - it is not a cosy little musicians collective with a nice well-written manifesto to create the most artistic music ever produced. It is there to entertain and to make money doing it. If that offends you then look away, but it is doing what it has always done - manufacturing product to sell in a market place - the whole ethos of Tin Pan Alley is no different to the manufactured Pop of today - sell the product by whatever means necessary. They are not trying to sell manufactured pop to you, so why get upset about it? They target you with other product from the music factory cleverly positioned to make it look like it was your choice and your discovery, but it is the same soft-sell and the self-same slick marketing. Do you seriously believe that Dream Theatre sold 12 million albums just because they were good? Of course not - it was marketting, damn good A&R and the wealth and expertise of the Atlantic Records industriual machine churning away. And the people who buy Justine Beiber or Balck Eye Pees or Ashlee Simpson are never going to buy Dream Theater so seriously what is the problem here? Oh no, don't even. I discovered Dream Theater because a friend handed me a cd and said "listen to this." A live cd. And most if the artists I love are because I went looking for them. I WISH these artists were marketed. They DESERVE to be. That's the point - people who are TONE DEAF are being mass marketed while people with real talent can't make a living from it because the industry has choked the market with music pollution. And that's quite sad. I find solace in enjoying the act of poking fun at the horrible "artists" who are making millions. But I wish I were in a position to change this sad state of affairs.

The music business or the music industry - both names are fitting - it is a business and it is an industry - it is not a cosy little musicians collective with a nice well-written manifesto to create the most artistic music ever produced. It is there to entertain and to make money doing it. If that offends you then look away, but it is doing what it has always done - manufacturing product to sell in a market place - the whole ethos of Tin Pan Alley is no different to the manufactured Pop of today - sell the product by whatever means necessary.

They are not trying to sell manufactured pop to you, so why get upset about it? They target you with other product from the music factory cleverly positioned to make it look like it was your choice and your discovery, but it is the same soft-sell and the self-same slick marketing. Do you seriously believe that Dream Theatre sold 12 million albums just because they were good? Of course not - it was marketting, damn good A&R and the wealth and expertise of the Atlantic Records industriual machine churning away. And the people who buy Justine Beiber or Balck Eye Pees or Ashlee Simpson are never going to buy Dream Theater so seriously what is the problem here?

dtguitarfan wrote: Did you watch the video in the link? Do so and maybe you'll understand - it puts me in tears every time.

Edited by rogerthat - June 04 2012 at 10:02

dtguitarfan wrote: Snow Dog wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: rogerthat wrote: Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example: http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html Why exactly would you love to HATE something that is just a piece of music?    Did you watch the video in the link? Do so and maybe you'll understand - it puts me in tears every time. I did. Whta's your point?

It's kind of like hating Sarah Palin. It's sooo fun to do. You should try it.[/QUOTE]

Snow Dog wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: rogerthat wrote: Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example: http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html Why exactly would you love to HATE something that is just a piece of music?    Did you watch the video in the link? Do so and maybe you'll understand - it puts me in tears every time.

[/QUOTE]
It's kind of like hating Sarah Palin. It's sooo fun to do. You should try it.

dtguitarfan wrote: rogerthat wrote: Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example: http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html Why exactly would you love to HATE something that is just a piece of music?

Did you watch the video in the link? Do so and maybe you'll understand - it puts me in tears every time.[/QUOTE]

rogerthat wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Dean wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: No grudge here. I'm using her as an example - one of many that exist to prove that the music industry has lost its way. You jumped to her defense, so I showed you why there is no defense for her. Grudge? No, I'm happy that the illusion was broken. I didn't jump anywhere - I didn't know of her music career, I looked it up, I saw nothing that would make her enfant terrible of the music industry, but as I said "evidently you know more about her than I do".   But you do make I larf and I should be thankful for that on a nondescript bankholiday Monday in May.   Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example: http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html Why exactly would you love to HATE something that is just a piece of music?

This brings me back to the Love/Hate threads that were popular here last week, and that is, why would you waste your time and breath with something you don't care for in art? I'd rather spend that time in searching for more music that I like.

darkshade wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Dean wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: No grudge here. I'm using her as an example - one of many that exist to prove that the music industry has lost its way. You jumped to her defense, so I showed you why there is no defense for her. Grudge? No, I'm happy that the illusion was broken. I didn't jump anywhere - I didn't know of her music career, I looked it up, I saw nothing that would make her enfant terrible of the music industry, but as I said "evidently you know more about her than I do".   But you do make I larf and I should be thankful for that on a nondescript bankholiday Monday in May.   Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example: http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html But it's attitude's like that that make other people think prog rock fans are snobs, when I would argue many members here are some of the most open minded music listeners, with diverse tastes.

I like some music that might be considered pop, but I agree about loathing the so-called "manufactured" pop stars.

Dean wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: No grudge here. I'm using her as an example - one of many that exist to prove that the music industry has lost its way. You jumped to her defense, so I showed you why there is no defense for her. Grudge? No, I'm happy that the illusion was broken. I didn't jump anywhere - I didn't know of her music career, I looked it up, I saw nothing that would make her enfant terrible of the music industry, but as I said "evidently you know more about her than I do".   But you do make I larf and I should be thankful for that on a nondescript bankholiday Monday in May.

Well, I'm glad I made you laugh, though I'm never sure if it's for the same reasons I do with you. But believe me - no grudge: I LOVE to hate pop music. It's like a hobby, and I find great enjoyment from it. Take this, probably my favorite video on the intertubes, as an example:
http://www.cracked.com/video_17618_black-eyed-peas-have-officially-written-worst-song-ever.html