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harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 10:38

Trust me

Bonnek

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 10:32

Ah yes that Boris, I was only thinking of stuff from the 80's and later!

Eh, Holditujzzjbjbbb who? Confused

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 07:50

^ Two YES inspired recommendations:

4.35 | 76 ratings
Boris
1975

3.77 | 9 ratings
Holdfénykert - Enhanced and Remastered
2008

Thumbs Up

Bonnek

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 07:46

Actually I would say that Anglagard and Sinkadus really managed to bring the spirit of Genesis alive (especially the 71-72 sound), without sounding all too derivative.

Marillion's Fish tried to sound like Genesis but became more interesting to me when they left that legacy behind on Fugazi and Misplaced Childhood.
And don't bring up IQ or I'll get bad-tempered!

By the way, I haven't heard any Yes or ELP reproduction yet that I haven't been running away from at full speed!

Edited by Bonnek - April 12 2010 at 07:46

rdtprog

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 07:17

American Khatru wrote:

rdtprog wrote:

I think that IQ is the exception for the Genesis inspired bands. They are not missing the mark. Maybe also the Marillion Fish period.

IQ misses the mark by several miles. Or perhaps a more apt image: if both are like "being there", then Genesis is like you're living among the people "there", learning their customs, getting upset, falling in love, participating. IQ is like seeing the place from a car, with an audio tour guide.

Yes your response is like a image that exagerate the reality with a good dose of imagination. It doesn't convince me.

Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

American Khatru View Drop Down

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Posted: April 12 2010 at 07:09

rdtprog wrote:

I think that IQ is the exception for the Genesis inspired bands. They are not missing the mark. Maybe also the Marillion Fish period.

Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

MCP

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Posted: April 11 2010 at 20:31

Because imitation is at best, the same, and well we've heard that before.

When a band makes their own it ends up with something like Anglagard's Hybris.

Every musician needs to take one's own path from one's own experiences. If one is trying to imitate when one doesn't create music in a similar way, it will almost certainly not work. I know from personal experience one can get caught up in technical details and forget the true creative process.

Best to try to make your own story with music, no matter what.

Also it's not always money that motivates these bands, it's like nostalgia, but they have to break away from it or else they are stuck in the past. It's produces tough times to vist uncomfortable and new experiences, but it will be worth it in the long term.

Edited by MCP - April 11 2010 at 20:33

progpositivity View Drop Down

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Posted: April 11 2010 at 18:17

Some of the 1980's neo vocalists seem to have been deeply inspired by Peter Gabreil's dramatic approach. Their emoting, however, can make Peter Gabriel's thespian antics seem downright understated in comparison, can they not? Now one may like an ultra-melodramatic vocal style - so I'm not here to really *bash* that per se. But magnifying one element of classic Genesis in such a manner clearly changes the end result. I'm curious... Might there be a group of 80's rock music fans out there that feel these neo bands *improved* upon classic Genesis?

It is as if some of these bands thought, "Wow, listen to the dramatic approach Genesis took in the 70's! They really abandoned their roots on this. We can take this to the next level! Of course, their musical interludes were way too long and drawn out. We will trim that type of "excess" from our songs so that we can tell dramatic tales while still keeping everything short and focused."

Then again, I'm trying to read their minds - which is a dangerous thing - but it seems plausible enough to me at the moment.

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rdtprog

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Posted: April 10 2010 at 14:11

I think that IQ is the exception for the Genesis inspired bands. They are not missing the mark. Maybe also the Marillion Fish period.

Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Moogtron III View Drop Down

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Posted: April 10 2010 at 12:28

harmonium.ro wrote:

I completely agree with you Marcel but I think that retro-symph is not necessarily a lost cause. Just like it was possible to do outstanding and 100% creative works in this style (just think of Hybris), theoretically it should be possible to do it again. I think the problem lies with the approach - those who try to do a certain style will fail, those who just try to do great music will succeed. At least that's how I feel the issue.

Yes, I do agree and maybe my response was too impulsive: there is some great neo prog out there. There are both soulless imitators as well as prog chiefs cooking a wonderful meal (to use Lemming's metaphor), classic but slightly different.

Genesis did have many imitators, though. More Genesis imitators than Yes and ELP imitators, I have the feeling. Maybe because Genesis seemed like an easier act to follow, which was maybe a false notion and that's why many bands failed (but certainly not all)

ExittheLemming View Drop Down

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Posted: April 10 2010 at 10:44

I think it's probably testimony to the unique summed talents and chemistry that existed in 'Gabriel' era Genesis that makes them so attractive to take inspiration from but devilish to replicate.

Although they were clearly all very highly accomplished musicians, they were in many respects one of the most 'democratic' giants of the 1st wave of proggers i.e. none of them could be deemed 'shredders' and in all their most enduring work, the whole is way more than the sum of its parts.

For me, neo prog (the chief culprits of flattery by imitation I guess)is that they had learned the ingredients but still didn't have the recipe.

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: April 10 2010 at 06:40

I completely agree with you Marcel but I think that retro-symph is not necessarily a lost cause. Just like it was possible to do outstanding and 100% creative works in this style (just think of Hybris), theoretically it should be possible to do it again. I think the problem lies with the approach - those who try to do a certain style will fail, those who just try to do great music will succeed. At least that's how I feel the issue.

Moogtron III View Drop Down

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Posted: April 10 2010 at 06:31

Personally, I find bands that try to imitate elements of Yes, ELP, Tull etc often also missing the mark.

My guess is that in the early days a band like Genesis was really pioneering in a new sound, while bands that use a lot of Genesis elements often don't have the same sense of adventure. And then it sounds like you've heard it all before.

Just my first guess.

progpositivity View Drop Down

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Posted: April 09 2010 at 12:13

This is a Prog *blog*. As such, the topic shifts and changes.

I've always been more of a GG and Yes fan than a Genesis or ELP fan. Not that I didn't like Genesis, they were always OK in my book. But I'm finally getting around to giving Genesis another chance to really break through my consciousness and to connect with me. I'm going to give each album multiple listens, providing it my undivided attention - even wearing headphones from time to time!

I've just finished 'absorbing' Trespass. Next up is Nursery Cryme!

You are invited to share your thoughts/observations on Nursery Cryme as I seek to let it "sink in" to my consciousness through repeated listens this week!

We also have a "back-thread" going on the subject of favorite keyboard or guitar solos. I love the guitar solo in "Carry On My Wayward Son". Feel free to "chime in" to post your favorite solos of all time!

-----------

Original Blog Post:

Many neo-proggers have tried (and most would argue that to a greater or lesser extent most have failed) to recreate the vibe of early Genesis. I'm not talking about sounding exactly the same as Genesis. I'm talking about creating a similar emotional feeling or listening experience the way Yezda Urfa or Modest Midget do for Gentle Giant fans or the way Par Lindh Project does for ELP fans.

What is it about early Genesis that made them sound so very good while performing mellow, melodramatic "prog"? And why does it so often come off sounding uninspired, lame or even downright silly when newer bands attempt to implement key elements of the early Genesis "style" either musically or vocally?

Oddly enough, when new prog bands employ stylistic elements from the guidebooks of other Prog Giants like Yes, ELP or Gentle Giant, it seems to "work" better, integrating into the end-result much more seamlessly. Of course, this observation may just the result of a personal bias on my part. I confess that I'm not a huge Genesis fan. I enjoy their music but never quite got into them as much as the other Big Greats of Prog History.

Personal bias aside, I still can't help feeling that, more often than not, the bands that are most inspired by Genesis often emerge as a type of Frankenstein monster, resembling Genesis in general form, yet curiously having undergone an unintentionally grotesque transformation during the process of coming to life.

If you agree, why do you think this is the case? If you disagree, I'd love to hear why as well.

Or perhaps this blog should take a turn toward another direction. Perhaps I should revisit the Genesis albums from start to finish again, giving them a fair chance to elevate themselves to my personal Top Tier of Prog Greatness, a position they already hold with the vast majority of Prog Fans worldwide?

Edited by progpositivity - April 26 2010 at 12:49

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