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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 20:04 |
Tell me about it.
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 20:00 |
stonebeard wrote:
progismylife wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Melodrama...
Take this as a lesson. Why do people feel the need to bash US presidents? Maybe... CAUSE WE ELECT TERRIBLE ONES. |
The choice between two bad choices. And USA always picks the worse one.
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Meh, Clinton wasn't bad. Can't remember his opponents. Seems the only peopel who don't think so are ruffled up because he either got a blow job (probably not the best moral choice to make, but W ain't the most moral of us all anyway) or he didn't follow the coservative agenda, which is logical because the guy wasn't conservative. He was a likeable person (something Bush will never be able to regain) and if anything, he made the US more favorable in the world's eye, a lot more than we can say for....well you know by now. |
I think his opponent was Bob Dole. Yes he did make USA more favorable. I think the USA needs another president like Clinton. But not Hilary.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:57 |
progismylife wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
Melodrama...
Take this as a lesson. Why do people feel the need to bash US presidents? Maybe... CAUSE WE ELECT TERRIBLE ONES. |
The choice between two bad choices. And USA always picks the worse one.
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Meh, Clinton wasn't bad. Can't remember his opponents. Seems the only peopel who don't think so are ruffled up because he either got a blow job (probably not the best moral choice to make, but W ain't the most moral of us all anyway) or he didn't follow the coservative agenda, which is logical because the guy wasn't conservative. He was a likeable person (something Bush will never be able to regain) and if anything, he made the US more favorable in the world's eye, a lot more than we can say for....well you know by now.
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:53 |
stonebeard wrote:
Melodrama...
Take this as a lesson. Why do people feel the need to bash US presidents? Maybe... CAUSE WE ELECT TERRIBLE ONES. |
The choice between two bad choices. And USA always picks the worse one.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:50 |
Melodrama...
Take this as a lesson. Why do people feel the need to bash US presidents? Maybe... CAUSE WE ELECT TERRIBLE ONES.
Edited by stonebeard - January 01 2007 at 19:50
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:48 |
Philéas wrote:
I still can't see the point of this thread...
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To bash US presidents with no mercy. Not a very good topic in my opinion.
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:46 |
I still can't see the point of this thread...
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:40 |
Wow, hardly any votes for Tricky Dicky.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 19:38 |
darksinger wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
It is a near-sighted poll though, but can't we all just predict how Bush will be viewed? I see two options:
1) Most likely (and most harsh): Took advantage of 9/11 paranoia to lead us into an unnecessary war which the true motives of will be revealed or at least apparent later down the timeline. Brought down barriers to open up drilling for oil in the US for mixed motives: tried to reduce foreign dependence on oil...by f**king up our national wildlife reserves, when stricter taxes on pollution and greener energy could have been developed, admittedly with a setback to the economy, but not everything is about the economy (if you ask me, we need to just take a breather for a bit. ) Overall: the hard-line neo-con, a visionary with the means to carry out his vision, and who will go down with it rather than give it up.
2) Less likely (basically if the whole Iraq debacle rectifies itself...somehow): He will be seen as an aggressor who took out a dictator. The leader who cared less about the means to an end rather than the ultimate end. If by some miracle iraq does turn into a beacon for democracy and the tackling of Islamic extremism in the region, I suppose he'll be seen as the guy who was stubborn in a good way, or at least good for the American Way of Life. Speaking of...a win in Iraq will likely embolden our country into thinking it has the continued right to do this sort of thing again. Shudder to think of that *brrrrr*
You've got to be one hell of an optimist to think that the US will come out of the Bush presidency even half as respected/admired as before. |
of course we are alot less respected now in the eyes of the world. they don't get fox news international or another counterpoint to all the bashing cnn, the bbc and whatnot has inflicted. it's the usa haters getting all the press and tearing up the usa and all. if i lived in europe or asia or anyplace else and saw the sh*t being broadcast and "reported", i'd hate the usa too. it does not matter what the truth is now anyway, does it? |
But this wouldn't be such a one-sided thing for no reason. The reason the US is being brought down is because these countries want it to be brought down. face up to it (not saying anyone was denying it) but the US is clearly in the spotlight globally and has been for many years. If I was in another country, I would get sick of seeing crap about the US all the time, regardless of whether it is good or bad. Perhaps they think that if enough bad crap happens to the US, it will just exit stage left and let somebody else take center stage. Do the people in these countries really hate the USA? You'd have to ask them, but I'd wager they don't.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 17:12 |
Is there a reason why USA under Bush's administration removed their signature from the Roman Statute that aproved the International Penal Court?
I'm talking about the Government obviously.. nothing against the northamericans
Edited by Chus - January 01 2007 at 17:13
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:55 |
E-Dub wrote:
Aahh, another thread against America. Keep it up and it'll overtake progressive music as the most talked about subject on this site.
I wonder if Daniel Gildenlow has anything to do with this.
E |
Except for some people with an own agenda, most of us give our opinion because like it or not, USA rules the destiny of all our countries, if you have read my previous posts you will notice that I prefer USA than any Nationalist, Socialist or Communist Government but this doesn't make me blind.
I don't think Bush is the worst President ever, it's too soon to say that but his acts cause repercusions in all our countries, when he started the war, Bush came to visit Perú (We didn't had terrorism for almost a decade) but the night before he came, somebody placed a bomb at 50 mts of the USA Embassy, no USA citizen or functionary died because the Embassy is a bunker with no windows and 100 Mts away from the external walls, but 9 innocent Peruvians who were near died.
If USA Presidents want to be the world Sheriff and decide the destiny of our countries directly or indirectly, well, they must accept the ctitics, and I'm one of the person who always makes comments in favour of USA system because I feel more comfortable with a nation in which democracy (Despite the problems) has an impeccable record, a country where you can write in a newspaper that you disagree with the President without the fear of vanishing in the air, but this respect and this lead role has a price to pay and it's the critics, something very cheap in comparison with all the power a USA President has in and outside their country.
Iván
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:47 |
^^^
le sigh
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:41 |
).
. Well Bush ought to pay for deaths ,going to jailL But the JUSTICE OUGHT TO do something with CLINTON too
Edited by markosherrera - January 05 2007 at 19:28
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 16:30 |
The T wrote:
Kennedy was not only charismatic but a believer in democracy, true democracy. His father made a fortune bootlegging alcohol into the US, let's agree on that, but his sons received a great education and, even if just for patronizing purposes or something, they meant good, they were forward-thinking people, not only JFK but Bobby and even much maligned yet very good senator Edawrd Ted Kennedy (very favorable to us latins, I may say). I just don't agree with qualifying presidents because of sex life, that's their private life; I'd rather have a sexomaniac who made the people richer and happier (not in a populist, Chavean way), created jobs and drove his country into the new era than a hypocritical, disguised "moral authority" who, behind the scenes, screws everybody and not only figuratively, but literally; Give me 20 Clintons and not one "Christian" like Bush who, as a "good christian" sends thousands to their deaths because of his oil-and-power-hunger.... Nixon, a paranoid sycho who did a few good things (opened china) but ultimately was a crook (the "checkers" incident was great, watergate a disaster).... Carter was a weakling.... Reagan was a fanatic but had some ideas.... G.H.W. Bush was another religion-crazy president but less fanatic than the current atrocity.... Clinton a great president...I don't care if he had a girl under the desk, HE CREATED JOBS, HAD A SURPLUS.... now when "religion" starts feeding people and stops wars INSTEAD OF CREATING THEM, I'll be all for fanatics.
And Vietnam was not only Kennedy's miscalculation, but Eisenhower's, too.
None remembers good president L.B.Johnson who made incredible reform towards integration and destruction of the segregationist system. He was pressured by society to do so, but he DID IT. Now the "moralists" Bush and Co. are so incredible "righteous", they have scandal after scandal every week. I live in the US, I think you have to live here to have a better perspective of what this idiot is doing. |
ahhh.. just noticed the thread.. so a day late and a dollar short. But have to say ^ Most intelligent post hands down hahhaha. especially the shout out to LBJ... my vote. as much as I think Bush has set this country back decades..... Nixon. He sought to undermine the whole basis of the Constitution. Unlike Reagan... he got caught....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:31 |
E-Dub wrote:
darksinger wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
darksinger wrote:
it was a toss up between carter (do nothing) and clinton (do anything so long as it flooded the dnc with contributions).
it is odd that ford got no votes-is it because many do not remember his presidency or are folks just being polite concerning his death? i'm not bashing the guy-he seemed pleasant enough-but it seems every other president has at least one vote, which is curious to me... | I think Ford was an OK President. I think where people really disapprove of him as a leader is when he pardoned Nixon. E |
i can see that. but if you want to get technical about such matters, why did clinton pardon rich before any charges were drawn up on the guy? |
Clinton was such a buffoon. I remember when Senator Ron Brown was killed in a plane crash, and at the funeral we see Clinton and other public figures walking and joking around. Clinton sees the camera focused right on him and immediately (and I mean immediately) becomes somber and wrought with grief. It was so comical.
E |
clinton turned the white house into an 8 year toga party, killed americans for owning guns, had one of the most corrupt administrations in all of the history of the usa (monica was the least of it all), gave north korea nuclear reactors and china our seaports and military secrets and contributed heavily to the "paper tiger" image of the usa, but "it was all about the sex". americans just feel a warm fuzzy about him and he is such a hero, having spirited away to the uk and russia during the vietnam war. apparently, though, what folks were doing during vietnam only applies to bush and his lot and not to clinton and his buddies. nevermind that clinton had raw data fbi files on his political opponents and critics and ordered irs audits on them as part of his political strategy for dealing with republicans, it's that evil george bush who seeks to hunt terrorists by checking phone records of people making calls to places such as israel, iran and syria. granted, bush is no prize in my book and i never voted for the guy, but the bush bashing is at a point that it has ceased to be annoying, but is destructive.
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darksinger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 1091
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:19 |
stonebeard wrote:
It is a near-sighted poll though, but can't we all just predict how Bush will be viewed? I see two options:
1) Most likely (and most harsh): Took advantage of 9/11 paranoia to lead us into an unnecessary war which the true motives of will be revealed or at least apparent later down the timeline. Brought down barriers to open up drilling for oil in the US for mixed motives: tried to reduce foreign dependence on oil...by f**king up our national wildlife reserves, when stricter taxes on pollution and greener energy could have been developed, admittedly with a setback to the economy, but not everything is about the economy (if you ask me, we need to just take a breather for a bit. ) Overall: the hard-line neo-con, a visionary with the means to carry out his vision, and who will go down with it rather than give it up.
2) Less likely (basically if the whole Iraq debacle rectifies itself...somehow): He will be seen as an aggressor who took out a dictator. The leader who cared less about the means to an end rather than the ultimate end. If by some miracle iraq does turn into a beacon for democracy and the tackling of Islamic extremism in the region, I suppose he'll be seen as the guy who was stubborn in a good way, or at least good for the American Way of Life. Speaking of...a win in Iraq will likely embolden our country into thinking it has the continued right to do this sort of thing again. Shudder to think of that *brrrrr*
You've got to be one hell of an optimist to think that the US will come out of the Bush presidency even half as respected/admired as before. |
of course we are alot less respected now in the eyes of the world. they don't get fox news international or another counterpoint to all the bashing cnn, the bbc and whatnot has inflicted. it's the usa haters getting all the press and tearing up the usa and all. if i lived in europe or asia or anyplace else and saw the sh*t being broadcast and "reported", i'd hate the usa too. it does not matter what the truth is now anyway, does it?
Edited by darksinger - January 01 2007 at 14:21
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:17 |
darksinger wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
darksinger wrote:
it was a toss up between carter (do nothing) and clinton (do anything so long as it flooded the dnc with contributions).
it is odd that ford got no votes-is it because many do not remember his presidency or are folks just being polite concerning his death? i'm not bashing the guy-he seemed pleasant enough-but it seems every other president has at least one vote, which is curious to me... | I think Ford was an OK President. I think where people really disapprove of him as a leader is when he pardoned Nixon. E |
i can see that. but if you want to get technical about such matters, why did clinton pardon rich before any charges were drawn up on the guy? |
Clinton was such a buffoon. I remember when Senator Ron Brown was killed in a plane crash, and at the funeral we see Clinton and other public figures walking and joking around. Clinton sees the camera focused right on him and immediately (and I mean immediately) becomes somber and wrought with grief. It was so comical.
E
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:12 |
It is a near-sighted poll though, but can't we all just predict how Bush will be viewed? I see two options:
1) Most likely (and most harsh): Took advantage of 9/11 paranoia to lead us into an unnecessary war which the true motives of will be revealed or at least apparent later down the timeline. Brought down barriers to open up drilling for oil in the US for mixed motives: tried to reduce foreign dependence on oil...by f**king up our national wildlife reserves, when stricter taxes on pollution and greener energy could have been developed, admittedly with a setback to the economy, but not everything is about the economy (if you ask me, we need to just take a breather for a bit. ) Overall: the hard-line neo-con, a visionary with the means to carry out his vision, and who will go down with it rather than give it up.
2) Less likely (basically if the whole Iraq debacle rectifies itself...somehow): He will be seen as an aggressor who took out a dictator. The leader who cared less about the means to an end rather than the ultimate end. If by some miracle iraq does turn into a beacon for democracy and the tackling of Islamic extremism in the region, I suppose he'll be seen as the guy who was stubborn in a good way, or at least good for the American Way of Life. Speaking of...a win in Iraq will likely embolden our country into thinking it has the continued right to do this sort of thing again. Shudder to think of that *brrrrr*
You've got to be one hell of an optimist to think that the US will come out of the Bush presidency even half as respected/admired as before.
Edited by stonebeard - January 01 2007 at 14:12
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:11 |
darksinger wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
darksinger wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
darksinger wrote:
it was a toss up between carter (do nothing) and clinton (do anything so long as it flooded the dnc with contributions).
it is odd that ford got no votes-is it because many do not remember his presidency or are folks just being polite concerning his death? i'm not bashing the guy-he seemed pleasant enough-but it seems every other president has at least one vote, which is curious to me... | I think Ford was an OK President. I think where people really disapprove of him as a leader is when he pardoned Nixon. E |
i can see that. but if you want to get technical about such matters, why did clinton pardon rich before any charges were drawn up on the guy? | But I don't want to get technical. You may be mixing up posts because I think you and I are on the same side. Sick of the USA bashing, too? Maybe I'm confusing them all. E |
my question was more rhetorical really.
but yes, i'm very sick of the bashing of the usa. |
OK, makes sense now. My apologies.
E
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 01 2007 at 14:10 |
darksinger wrote:
E-Dub wrote:
And if you think GWB is a moron, take a look at who he was running up against in 2000. Gore isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, either. Remember the video of Gore and Clinton touring Monticello, and Gore looking at the bust of George Washington and asking, "Whose this guy?" The look on Clinton's face spoke volumes. Well, if it wasn't for guys like me buying their CD's, PoS couldn't have people as fortunate as you on their payroll. [IMG]smileys/smiley4.gif" align=middle> E |
i forgot about that! man, that was even ragged on on a tv show...i forget which one. but the look was hilarious!!
in 2004, kerry was no prize either-the guy was such a waffle he belonged in a pancake house! |
One of the more disgusting displays I've ever seen was during the 2004 elections. I worked for an ad agency located in (what used to be) Kansas City's main airport just north of downtown. Today it's just used for a hub for private jets to fly in and out of, but other businesses occupy the main terminal. The candidates would use the airport all of the time, and one day the Bush/Cheney plane landed and was taxiing closer. One of the art directors stands up against the window and waves the bird. I just about came unglued, though. I would never even consider doing that to the President of the United States.
E
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