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xtopher 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 391
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 Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:13 |
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:05 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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xtopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 391
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 19:00 |
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:58 |
TfTO wins this easily, considering all the mediocre stuff DT has turned
out. However, if it would have been TfTO vs. Images and Words only, I would
have voted for the latter. 
Edited by Philéas - August 08 2006 at 18:58
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:50 |
 ivansfr0st wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
When I buy it, which is highly
unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on
records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself
to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great
effort. |
I suggest not to bother wasting money for music you don't expect yourself to enjoy.
-- Ivan |
trust me... I won't make that mistake again hahahha.. 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:49 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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xtopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 391
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 18:47 |
Dream Theater reviews by micky annd Ghost Rider: a "fair and balanced" look on DT. Who can "outfox" the other?!? 
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:15 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
When I buy it, which is highly unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great effort. |
I suggest not to bother wasting money for music you don't expect yourself to enjoy.
-- Ivan
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sig
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:10 |
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When I buy it, which is highly unlikely for the time being... I'm already spending oodles of money on records, but at least I listen to them. With DT, I have to force myself to listen to them, and I only manage to get to the end with great effort.
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billbuckner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 433
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 16:07 |
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When are you doing Six Degrees?
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: August 08 2006 at 15:13 |
The threatened ToT review is online... Enjoy it to the fullest, my dear DT fans! Next in line - the dreaded "Once in a Livetime"... *bash, bash, bash* 
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 07 2006 at 20:45 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: August 07 2006 at 16:29 |
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 06 2006 at 18:11 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
Those guitar magazines are usually horrible and have no idea what they are rating on.
If you were to take a serious look into the guitar world, half the people they list wouldn't be in those magazines and you'd have a diverse display of guitarists.
Ill take Bumblefoot as an example of a criminally underrated guitarist who will never get his praise because he isn't in a famous band.
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We can agree to disagree and of course there are undiscovered musicians by the boat load everywhere. Jon Anderson once said that there are some really good bands and even some better than we are (Yes) that will never see the light of day.
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 06 2006 at 01:11 |
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Those guitar magazines are usually horrible and have no idea what they are rating on.
If you were to take a serious look into the guitar world, half the
people they list wouldn't be in those magazines and you'd have a
diverse display of guitarists.
Ill take Bumblefoot as an example of a criminally underrated guitarist
who will never get his praise because he isn't in a famous band.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 06 2006 at 00:50 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
However, not everyone equivilates Steve Howe to guitar genius, in fact, very few do as not many people know his name. Most people understand the name Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix, not Steve Howe, if you get my drift.
I like Howe's style and that is subjective but he was voted "best" guitarist five times in a row by Guitar Magazine and he is also the only "Rock" guitarist to be voted into the guitar gallery of greats.
Anyway, these forums are a good place to sound opinions and I enjoy that.  |
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 23:08 |
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Barry Bonds is a bad example IMO, but I understand what you are saying anyways and won't get into it.
However, not everyone equivilates Steve Howe to guitar genius, in fact,
very few do as not many people know his name. Most people understand
the name Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix, not Steve Howe, if you get my
drift.
I know exactly what you are talking about about the kid who plays a
mean guitar, cause that was me about 3 years ago. I'm sure I'll learn
more and think I am an idiot again 5 years from now, who knows, I might
be even stronger about certain aspects of my opinions.
I didn't write much for CTTE because well, it has about 500 reviews,
mine is a small part of the picture. For an album by a band like 65
days of static I was more careful about my review becuase it was the
2nd one for the band, and I realized it would have a bigger impact than
a review for CTTE. However, in the future, I will probably be ensuring
that my reviews have more substance to them, as I was approached
earlier about my DT review, basically because I didn't give the album 5
stars.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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Sacred 22
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1509
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 22:46 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
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We are all entitled to our subjectivity. That being said, I do think that Yes were forced to take a different direction with the addition of Alan White to the band and some feel that comprimises were made as a result. I am one of those, but his work on Tales is not bad really and his work on Relayer stands out as well.
As far as Steve Howe goes. He basically took the band from nowhere to stardom when he showed up on the third album. I used to be in the music business and I have met many musicians especially guitar players. Not one of them thinks Howe is anything less than masterful.
I do know one guy who likes DT and has even learned to Shred. Hey, he is pretty good. He will say, "Howe can't shred like me." I'll say, "can you write like Howe." We get together and all he wants to hear is music with shredders. I now realize he has trouble appreciating music for music's sake even though he calls himself a musician and can play a mean guitar.
Reviews that lean too heavily in the subjective dept. tend to be misleading. That's why I have trouble with your rating of Close to the Edge and Topographic Oceans. Both works are considered master works by any description and to give Tales one star and CttE five is very misleading and as a result I would have trouble using your review as a guide line unless I had the same subjective tastes as you. This could be useful for some but I think more care should be excercised in how ratings are dished out. You may not like Barry Bonds, but to say he a lousy baseball player is just plain wrong if you get my drift.
I do thank you for not being afraid to speak your mind.
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OpethGuitarist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1655
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 21:02 |
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No biggie, all love here.
I'm pretty open minded actually, I just typically have close-minded
reviews, becuase well, I'm stating my opinions on something and it's
therefore going to be close-minded, even though in reality I am open to
many forms of expression, if that makes any damn sense.
Now awaiting sacred's response as to how his subjectivity is better than mine.
Tick tock.
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back from the dead, i will begin posting reviews again and musing through the forums
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
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Posted: August 05 2006 at 20:25 |
OpethGuitarist wrote:
@micky
If I was going to rate things by what is essential because it was prog
and what isnt essential based on that then reviewing would be
completely pointless. For example, my DSOTM review. Everyone has heard
it, so that means it should automatically be rated 5 stars? No. It
doesn't. It's dumb because that would mean I might have 3 and 2 star
albums I like more than 5 star albums. That's not really fair to me or
to people reading my reviews. Reviews are always going to be
subjective, no matter how objective you attempt to make them. Reviews,
like music, are not a science.
valid points.... and reasonable stated..
so....blue font hahaha.... Let's take your DSOTM album for example...
there is not consensus that DSOTM is an essential prog album.. I do not
think so and others do not as well. It was commerically sucessful
yeah... it had a concept that was not particularly earth shattering and
musically.. well that was never Floyd's strong suit. One good
guitarist and 3 average musicians.. the sum was truly greater than the
parts but I digress.. what is essential IS open for
question. Of course you would talk about whether an album hits
you or not... but there are only a handful of album that I think are
ESSENTIAL without question. DSOTM is not one.. and neither is
TFTO... too many people dislike it. Lord knows I got on my high
horse with you.... like you really give a flip about me telling you how
to review hahahha ...however..
consider my post not directly totally at you but an open invite to
consider shifting the emphasis of reviews from petty likes and dislikes
(where I'll stand by me saying that FEW TO NONE care if you liked it or
not) to where the album fits within prog. Was it
inventive.. original.. is it important (even though I may not have
liked it) for people to hear. I think that would make reviews
much more effective than the vanity display that they are now for the
most part. Might be a pipe dream... but hey... why not broach the
subject....
Example. Everyone likes the movie Gladiator. Or pretty much everyone.
Let's suppose I don't like it, and I have reasons why other than, "the
film is bad". Should I just go tell my friends to see it because
everyone else likes it? No. That's what happens in the pop and
mainstream world. You tell people to listen to things because everyone
else has and everyone else likes it therefore you should like it too
and listen to it.
Also, I never accused any specific person of being or not being a
musician, it was a general statement not directed at anyone, it was
also more or less a sarcastic comment, maybe I should write sarcasm in
big bold letters next time. 
hahaha just do what I do... cultivate a reputation for scarcasm and smartassery
As to you wanting albums with scope? There are plenty of bands that
release long "journey-like" songs. I'm not going to be able to find 10
prog albums because you have already limited yourself to that one
album, regardless of what I have already found or might find in the
future. You should rate the DT album with how you feel it is as an
album, and not rate it because all the prog-metal fanboys like it. I
rate with my heart, not with what people tell me I should rate
something.
my review will in part be an insight into an
older proggers thoughts about 'new prog' and why I dislike it so.
It is far removed from what prog was all about... that is the angle of
my review. I think my system of giving two ratings works well....
if anyone actually did care what I though of an album personally.. it's
out there... but for the site at large... it is and should be
different. I use the example of the Live Magma album from
Bruxelles 1971 that I reviewed. LOVED it... however to
award any more than 2 stars for an album that NO ONE outside of a Magma
fan would buy or maybe even like is assinine. So I give split
ratings... works well for me.. and may be...presumptuous hahahha of me too say.. .but would like to see others adopt it.
anyway... like I said ...nothing personal.... just using your
post as a framework to pound out some things I feel quite strongly
about...
@sacred
You say I am subjective, yet your first response is entirely subjective
calling him one of the most creative guitarists that ever lived. I
could name 100 guitarists I think are more creative than him, and guess
what, that's subjective too. So your subjectivity is ok and mine is
not?
As for the album? I've listened to it about 10 times over the course of
2/3 years. It's not like I just listened to it yesterday. Maybe "I just
don't get it" as some of you say, and then again, maybe you "get it too
much". No one can ever really prove either. Anyway, I am much happier
listening to CTTE, Fragile, and Relayer, which I consider Yes's best
works.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dream Theater vs Tales From Topographic Oceans
