2.1 speaker system

I didn't expressed well myself.

So, the correct sentence should better be: "Devices are polluting each other"

"and devices like the one in your sig which expose their circuitry like that are simply more affected by electronic interference than others."

It's proper to tube amps.
Indeed, it exists accessories which protect the tubes from pollution, like the metallic protections you see on some tubes of this Mc Intosh tube tuner MR71.





ThEre are also accesories to put on tubes to prevent them from vibrations (see the little input tubes on this Jolida 302 (my amp)):






So you somehow contest that power issues may affect the
good working of a device. That's interesting.

Edited by oliverstoned

"My washing machine is not a part of the signal. Even the best amp in the world can not "reveal" things that weren't even in the signal in the first place."

Devices are polluting themselves electrically.
And it simply degrade the sound.

Do you contest it?


Edited by oliverstoned

"I always thought that the amp is meant to amplify the source signal with as little change to it as possible."

That's it. And as a good tube amp in a good sytem is far more transparent in the highs, it reveals all.

GoldenSpiral wrote: It has always been my opinion that audiophile equipment is prohibitively expensive and often much much more expensive than it is worth. I would consider myself an audiophile, except that my stereo, while large, is mostly cheap and second-hand components.now, on to the cables. It is true that power cables add a certain amount of low-level noise into the system, which can, conceivably, interfere with overall sound reproduction. however, this is only really important in areas where the power supply (i.e. what comes to your house from your neighborhood grid) is dirty and full of noise. Unless you have known harmonics in your supply, paying out the arse for expensive cables really isnt worth it IMO. but hey, if you notice a difference and youre willing to pay, i am in no position to contradict.

I have never said that you need to pay billions and that you must have 1000€ cables , in order to have a musical system.
The rule is very simple: a good system is made of only musical elements. All must be good.

There are 1 000 000 € system that sound like train stations, and i can compose a whole 1000€ musical system which will be better!!! :

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6876&K W=budget


...but if you want the top, it's more expensive...
Like for everything else!

There are even more expensive power cables (2500€) which explode the 1000€ one i was alluding to!

There's no limit in the absolute's quest...



---> Mike
"Why should I pay gargantuous amounts of money to remove noise from my system which I can't even hear in the first place?"

In your case, that would make no sense to put such a cable on your system.
That would only reveal its weakness.

The first step for you is to get a decent source, a good amp and a pair of speakers. You're far from needing power cables.
But as soon as you have good elements, my advice is to link them with a complete "Qed" line for interconnects and "Eupen" power cables (45€ per cable).

Edited by oliverstoned

oliverstoned wrote: The noise is also generated by atmospheric pollution (i mean the pollution generated by all electric devices of the house). Al devices are polluted themselves. I'm not the only one to notice a huge difference. I talk "a posteriori", while Mike and you talk "a priori".

That's not true. The kind of "noise" that we are talking about here is audible - in case that it exists. If I place my cellphone near some components (amp, speakers, speaker wires) of my system and I receive a call or the phone simply exchanges control messages with the station ... then I hear it.

The point is: I don't hear any ground noise on my system ... no harmonics or anything. Even the washing machine which is in the room next to my system doesn't result in anything audible on my system, even when I turn the volume know WAY up.

Why should I pay gargantuous amounts of money to remove noise from my system which I can't even hear in the first place?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ a digital amp disguised as an analog tube amp! BTW: This is my current amp ( or amp simulator/preamp if you will): Kind of like the best of both worlds (digital/analog)!

I've heard good things about that box. It's got a tube in it, so it MUST be good!

^ a digital amp disguised as an analog tube amp!

BTW: This is my current amp ( or amp simulator/preamp if you will):

Kind of like the best of both worlds (digital/analog)!

Edited by MikeEnRegalia

oliverstoned wrote: I return to long hours of musical ecstasy and let you to your prog metal, your computer and your sets of plastic boxes... Have a good night to all and a good day for the others.

What nonsense. Prog Metal? What has that to do with speakers? Computer? What has that to do with speakers? Plastic boxes? What has that to do with my Logitech speakers? And even IF they were made entirely of plastic, what has that to do with the sound?

It's sad that some people still think that the better some equipment looks, the better it sounds. And the more natural the components are (wood, chromium/gold) the better it sounds.

Nonsense. Just test the equipment in real life situations, and if it sounds good, then it IS good. Plastic or not, digital or not, unexpensive or not. 

Ooooh, this is getting good! 

These cables features filtering boxes which play the same role than power filter and it results in a huge improvment in term of soundstage, dynamic, remove a lot of harshness...
To sum up, a huge improvment on all criterias.
Same for interconnect cables, all very high end cables features these kind of boxes.

Those who don't hear the difference need their ears to be checked.
(we made the test to my father last weekend -who was quite septikal at first- and he was amazed by the result.
Now he'd like to get some for his own system, but gave up because of the price and will stay on cheaper cables).

Do you really believe that i'm fool enough to spent 500€ on a cable just because it's expensive?

And know that the equipment we use is sometimes even better than what they use in studio (I.E tube amps versus solid state one). A Conrad Johson amp is far more musical (it doesn't mean that it's less acuurate, it's far more in the highs) than any studio solid sate amp used for monitoring.

The CD player i use is up to what they use for radio broacast (they use Studer integrated CD players most of the time, while we use separate drive/converter far better).

PS: Sorry Mike to forget the "IMO", that was not kind of me.

High end cables:



This studio engineer uses Transparent cables



Bob Ludwig, an absolute reference in rock mastering (this guy manages to make digital musical) uses Transparent cables for its own needs.





Technical explanations (from Transparent cables website):

"You may not realize how much low-level noise is robbing your system of its potential -- until you hear your components linked with Transparent. If the cables and power conditioning products in your music and film system are not Transparent, then every signal path is like an antenna to unwanted noise. All Transparent cables and power conditioning products reject noise.

Noise at any point in the signal chain inhibits the ability of your music or film system to reveal all the subtle nuances of texture, tone, color, body, dimension, and contrast that are encoded in your favorite music and film program materials. These subtle nuances are the critical elements that help us to suspend our belief that we are only listening to or viewing electronic signals. They are the critical elements that bring our listening and viewing experiences to life.


oused within those distinctive "black boxes" on our audio cable are special passive electrical networks that reject noise. The networks also tune that specific length and type of cable to provide exactly the right balance of electrical properties for the use of the cable within the music or film system.

Transparent video and digital cables also reject noise, but they do so without networks. Because of the ultra-high frequency transmission required by digital and video cables, precision manufacturing and termination techniques can ensure that these types of cables have the correct balance of electrical properties without the use of networks. Transparent video and digital cables reject noise through proprietary materials, shielding, and termination techniques.

Transparent power products reject noise through networks and shielding techniques. The more we study the effects of dirty power on music and pictures, the more we appreciate what clean power can do for every home system.

ransparent designs start in a well equipped test laboratory, where an important 35% of each product's development takes place. The testing allows us to calibrate each cable and length to achieve theoretically ideal characteristics for its application. This calibration improves the performance of our products in a number of ways. The primary aim of our design process is to remove noise from the signal path.

Our commitment to create uniform behavior in our cables means a lot of painstaking work, but the results make it worthwhile. For each model of Transparent Cable that requires a network, we design a specific filter for each length of cable that we offer in that model. If 6 lengths are offered in a given model, then we design 6 individual filters to keep response uniform. Each cable is calibrated to control high frequency roll-off behavior, group delay characteristics, resonance, and impedance behavior into a wide range of its intended audio load conditions.

However, laboratory test equipment can not adequately predict how a cable and its network will really behave on the wide range of audio and video components that are available today. Therefore, the ultimate refinement of all Transparent cable and power conditioning designs takes place in our music and film studio where we can directly experience how our designs work with other components. This unique studio is our most important design tool. The engineering and architectural features of the room allow us to hear the merits of our products in conjunction with other components without the room contributing to the sonic presentation."



    

Edited by oliverstoned - August 09 2006 at 08:16