The first suite - Progressive Rock Music Forum

jamesbaldwin wrote:

Saperlipopette! wrote:

jamesbaldwin wrote:

That's why I prefer to use an objective criterion: the duration: if it fills a whole side, it's a suite.

It seems you're mistaking objective with wrong. Using an objective criterion indicates using the correct criterion. Just ask for early sidelong songs instead. If that's what you're looking for.

You can't just make up a new meaning for the term suite on the spot. It has existed and has been used as a term in the arts for centuries, and it has an actual, specific meaning.

So Close to the Edge is not a suite, right?

It's a multipart song divided into I. The Solid Time Of Change, II: Total Mass Retain, III. I Get Up, I Get Down and IV: Seasons Of Man. And conciously spliced together while taking insipration from composers such as Sibelius and how he composed symphonies using different sounding "movements". So Close to the Edge is much closer to the meaning of a what a suite means than In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida - which is pretty much an extended jam. Whether a song is sidelong or not is obviously beside the point. Seriously don't you see how silly that looks? I can't believe I'm discussing this. Supper's Ready isn't sidelong btw and I guess that automatically disqualifies it from all suite-related discussions - unlike Iron Butterfly's overlong little ditty.

Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Zappa, Lumpy Gravy, August 1967.

Yes, Zappa makes the cut, at least in my book.

I'm In the Garden of Eden whenever I hear this song, but I've never thought of it as a suite, even though it occupies the whole side of an album. To me, a suite is a series of distinct (and often named) musical movements making up part of a greater whole, such as Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells or Supper's Ready by Genesis, and if I'm wrong about that, then you can knock me down with an

Iron Butterfly. Tongue

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 09 2023 at 16:51

Stressed Cheese wrote:

Close To The Edge is a side-long song, but I don't think it'd be considered a suite, even though the song itself has different named sections.

This track is called "Elegant Gypsy Suite":

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.

Saperlipopette! wrote:

jamesbaldwin wrote:

That's why I prefer to use an objective criterion: the duration: if it fills a whole side, it's a suite.

It seems you're mistaking objective with wrong. Using an objective criterion indicates using the correct criterion. Just ask for early sidelong songs instead. If that's what you're looking for.

You can't just make up a new meaning for the term suite on the spot. It has existed and has been used as a term in the arts for centuries, and it has an actual, specific meaning.

So Close to the Edge is not a suite, right?

Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.

Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Zappa, Lumpy Gravy, August 1967.

Oh, yes, 1967.

Shall we try to put the suites in order until the end of 1969?

Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.

Zappa, Lumpy Gravy, August 1967.

Not sure I'd call it a suite. Noodle, Jam, Psych sure.

But let's look at what a suite is:

a) an instrumental composition consisting of several movements in the same key based on or derived from dance rhythms, esp in the baroque period

b) an instrumental composition in several movements less closely connected than a sonata

c) a piece of music containing movements based on or extracted from music already used in an opera, ballet, play, etc

So I'd offer up the following as being more appropriate.

November 1968

The Nice - Ars Vita Longa Brevis - Symphony For Group And Orchestra (18:20)
- a) Prelude
- b) 1st Movement: Awakenings
- c) 2nd Movement: Realisation
- d) 3rd Movement: Acceptance "Brandenburger"
- e) 4th Movement: Denial
- f) Coda - Extension To The Big Note

EDIT

But yes , as I just saw Procol Harem's release was in September 1968 in US, BUT Dec. In UK.

Edited by JD - April 09 2023 at 11:23

Thank you for supporting independently produced music

Could be, I thought it was Procol Harum's In Held 'Twas in I, but that one came a few months afterwards.