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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66255
Posted: March 21 2018 at 17:58
I consider myself to be a Democrat on most social issues and generally disagree with the Republicans pretty much across the board on just about every major social issue. But I am for the most part fiscally conservative and like ProfPanglos, from a purely selfish standpoint, my taxes also will go down and this truly is the only item that personally intersects with my day-to-day life. I find Trump to be an absolute buffoon and his personality to be a complete embarrassment to the office of the President of the United States of America. It remains to be seen if his tax reform turns out to be a boon or a bust. There is something to be said about kicking the can down the road so our children and grandchildren can fix our messes. (given that I have neither this is another political position that does not personally intersect with my life personally). Anyhow, I am all for civil conversations regarding this, and am also open to understanding both sides of the coin so to speak.
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17845
Posted: March 21 2018 at 17:54
I too live in WA state, south of Seattle....I too voted for Trump, at the time simply because I could not see Hillary as the 1st woman president of the USA. Her past precedes her and is not what I wanted as a reward for her family. Talking about her issues is beating a dead horse, that family is politically done.
I pretty much agree with all that @profpanglos wrote. It was the card we were dealt and I knew it was going to be a circus and the news media was going to have a field day (term) with him, it makes for great news bottom line, but its getting super old. So much that any good/positive that current administration is doing is not even being discussed.
I speak to people all over the world in my business, the over riding feeling is that the general US voter is a dumba$$. Not for voting in Trump, that has nothing to do with it.......Its because they tell me how can you honestly believe your voter was influenced by Russia? The US has the most respected voting process in the world, trustworthy and without question at the end of a voting process.
They all believe social media has influence in all elections, but that the US voter is clearly more intelligent than only paying attention to Facebook. All the debates, fully televised live and interviews give you the information to make the best informed decision you can and now we are being told that the voter was influenced by Facebook posts??? This is nuts and the media is just throwing fuel on that fire and I don't understand why since they are making the US voter (all of us) look like nimrods to the world....We have the freedom to vote as we like, but I firmly believe the bulk of voters use better information that what is put on Facebook.
Obama publicly endorsed a candidate before the French election, proclaimed this was the best for the US and its relationship with France, I really have no issue with him doing that, all of them do it. But all of a sudden now it is a problem? Every country has/can/does meddle in elections, but to think that Russia infiltrated our votes and ballots is simply nuts.
We have heard enough politicians state there is no evidence of collusion also, again this stuff is getting old and really making the US look like a bunch of whinny a$$ cry-babies......
At this point I wish Trump well for the balance of his term and if he decides to run again, I'll pay attention, look at what he accomplished and listen to the other candidates, watch debates and make my decision again.
Seriously, thanks for your post. Although I disagree with most of the points you bring up, I'm looking forward to discussing some of these at a later date.
I'm happy that it looks as if we'll be able to talk about these in a sensible and coherent fashion, because I must admit that some of the points you bring up seem to be pretty persuasive, when you put them the way that you have. I'll have to think about a number of them first.
And thanks for your post as well. Discussing (even disagreeing) about politics is a fun way to pass the time. Or at least, it should be. Seems like a lot of people these days are super-quick to get defensive, angry, belligerent, or whatever. I don't have any interest in that - I like to keep it good-natured. And I also like to keep an open mind. I could be very wrong about Trump, I acknowledge that's a possibility.
A few months ago, it dawned on me (how Trump makes decisions). I think he asks himself, "If I do this, do we gain, or do we lose?" I think that's basically his sole criteria. Gain. Like with that chump Roy Moore. Trump's detractors were up in arms about Trump supporting him. I don't think Trump gave a rip about whatever accusations were made against Moore - as long as there was no evidence, Trump was going to back him, because all he cared about was Moore's vote. Trump would've cut Moore loose in a heartbeat if convicted or if actual evidence was brought forward, but until then... he only cares about winning and gaining.
I don't think that's a bad trait to have in a President.
It's fascinating - he could go down in flames and infamy... or he could do a lot of good for the country (and probably win 2020 in a landslide). Keeps me entertained!
On an entirely selfish level, the only decision Trump has made which personally intersects with my day-to-day life was the tax reform. My taxes went down, and my wage went up. So he gets a high-five from me on that one.
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Posted: March 21 2018 at 16:36
Seriously, thanks for your post. Although I disagree with most of the points you bring up, I'm looking forward to discussing some of these at a later date.
I'm happy that it looks as if we'll be able to talk about these in a sensible and coherent fashion, because I must admit that some of the points you bring up seem to be pretty persuasive, when you put them the way that you have. I'll have to think about a number of them first.
I didn't like Trump when he was campaigning, and I could not bring myself to vote for him. I did not feel like any of the people running were qualified for the job, and I particularly did not think Trump was serious; I thought he was full of hot air, telling people what they wanted to hear. I did not think he would make good on any of his campaign promises.
(That said, I'm glad he beat Hillary, I thought she was far more corrupt and compromised than Trump.)
I also understood the sentiment of many who voted for him, as I also felt that Obama had been a lousy president that had weakened America considerably in his 8 years of posturing.
Now that Trump has been in for over a year, and I've had a chance to see him work in the position, I'm actually somewhat impressed - and presuming he is able to keep his detractors at bay, and is not removed from office for this or that - and presuming he keeps up the good work, I will vote for him in 2020.
There is plenty that I still don't like about him. But here is what I do like:
He seems to be serious about his patriotism. I like that.
His economics/money views are savvy.
He is making great decisions regarding slashing regulations, which is necessary to bring production back to this country.
His tough talk (and action) on trade imbalances is refreshing and needed.
His weird tweets bring me great pleasure. Even if he's being a knucklehead, it's a level of transparency that we've never before seen in a President.
I like his lack of regard for political correctness.
His tactics with North Korea seem to be effective (but we'll see...)
He works the media like Fripp with a Les Paul. He's better at their game than they are, and that tickles me, because the media does indeed have an agenda to discredit and denigrate him. The media's bias toward the left (and against Trump) is truly unmistakable (has been for decades), and Trump has not only brought their bias to the light of day, but he regularly bests them when they are trying their hardest to put him down.
I like the way he is putting America's interests first. I could give several examples. Pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord was smart. The tax cuts/reform was a good move. Honoring the embassy move to Jerusalem was good. His communications with Taiwan are very refreshing, and it's nice to see a President stand up to China on that one.
I like that he has pushed both China and Russia into their corners. They are the two largest, main cold war communist superpowers which leverage actions/events in other nations against us. They've been doing it consistently (and without any push-back) from the USA for a long time. They're getting push-back now, and they don't like it one bit. I'm OK with that, because the cold war never went away - we just dropped our guard. Apparently our guard is back up - a welcome change.
Anyway, I don't consider myself a Democrat or a Republican. I think the system is entirely broken, and I don't really associate myself with anyone or any group politically. But so far, I think Trump's done all right. He's crass, he's kind of a clown, there's almost a comic element to his whole Presidency and Administration, but that bothers me less than Obama's Administration, which was subversive, corrosive, and divisive.
Trump has also given some pretty good speeches. His address to the South Korean Assembly was excellent (of course, none of the major news outlets reported on that).
For me, it is downright refreshing to have a President (flawed as he is) who is actually serious about putting America's interests first, and ensuring the USA operates from a position of strength, not weakness. Obviously, you can't turn around a country that has been in economic, social, and political decline overnight. But I think he's making the right steps to begin to turn things around.
I wish him well, and hope for his continued success. So far, he's been a better President than Obama, both Bushes, and certainly head and shoulders above Bill Clinton.
Another positive: Trump's election (and antics) have illustrated that the political left is far more aligned with democratic socialism (and even communism) than with a constitutional republic with democratic leanings. Some of us knew that was the case (before Trump), but many did not.
I'm always reading about how Trump supporters are a bunch of redneck bigots. Baloney. I know [many] people who voted for Trump - and I live in Seattle, which is the most liberal haven in the Pacific Northwest. All of these people I know who did vote for Trump are intelligent, sane, adult professionals who are tired of the leftist agenda to reduce America to a lower standard, and the "Republican" standard of inaction and lip-service to conservative ideals.
Trump's no conservative. But he's shaking things up, and they needed some shaking.
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6339
Posted: March 21 2018 at 14:55
npjnpj wrote:
What on Earth are you on?
Because the Mueller team doesn't publicize it's findings means there aren't any? Small hint: perhaps they're amassing evidence. Law enforcement does that sometimes.
I believe I'm a logical critical thinker. I think I have good reason to believe that Trump did not collude with Russia.
NSA Obama appointee Clapper, FBI Obama appointee Comey, CIA Obama Appointee Brennan caught lying about Trump and Russia, Senator Diane Feinstein, and the House Intel Committee ALL FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF RUSSIA COLLUSION!
Most the following folks on video Hate Trump. Some of you guys think I'm deluded to believe there was No Russian Trump collusion? Really? I believe you wish, pray, and desire for proof of Russian Trump collusion. The facts are on my side. Logic is on my side The MSM and your personal desires for Trump Russia collusion fuel your belief.
Everything anti Trump leaks like a sieve. Yet, not one piece of "anti-Trump evidence" has leaked. If Trump was a traitor, I would ask for the Death Penalty. I go where the evidence and logic lead me.
I don't believe Mueller is an genius angel who would not leak. Mueller, the man who delivered enriched uranium to Russia? Mueller who bungled the post 911 anthrax investigation and arrested the wrong man.. Mueller, the man who blew the Arthur Anderson investigation which got overturned by a 9-0 Supreme Court decision?
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
Posted: March 21 2018 at 13:55
dr wu23 wrote:
Even the current POTUS isn't dumb enough to do that.
In the end a few small fish will be caught for various things and the House of Trump will continue to be a dysfunctional mess.
there is very definitive reason for the right wing/foxnews smear campaign against Mueller and the FBI (as well as the intelligence community). It is aimed at his supporters.. who now think the completely apolitical FBI somehow has it out for Trump. He is setting himself up to survive what Nixon could not..
we are speeding toward a constitutional crisis as Congress out of shear partisan politics is unwilling or unable to check and balance Trump. Who acts more and more like a petty dictator whom yes the rules and the law do not apply to.
What would happen if he was able to get rid of Mueller.. a lot of things...
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833
Posted: March 21 2018 at 13:48
Planet Trump obviously.. embarrassing man... but that is the average Republican/right wing voter these days. Barely informed.. and what little is often by echo chamber self serving news sources that have strong motives (profit or just keeping in Trump's good graces) to keep their readers in the dark and stupid.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Posted: March 21 2018 at 13:23
What on Earth are you on?
Because the Mueller team doesn't publicize it's findings means there aren't any? Small hint: perhaps they're amassing evidence. Law enforcement does that sometimes.
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6339
Posted: March 21 2018 at 13:11
npjnpj wrote:
Trump has two choices, and these are: 1) Let Mueller continue and go to court, possibly facing jail and the loss of a large part of his fortune for crimes committed, or 2) fire Mueller (well, have him fired then) and rely on republican support to see him through any impeachment threat, which would almost certainly to happen. After all, after the tax legislation they owe him big time.
Looks like a no-brainer to me.
But, as the intelligence community would be certain to take Mueller's firing into account, I can't help wondering what contingency plan they already have in pl,ace for this happening, so as to be able to continue the investigation without him.
Every single CIA,NSA, and FBI witness has said under oath "No evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion" That includes a murder's row of folks who Hate Trump's guts: Clapper, Comey, McCabe, Brennan, among others. The minute the same people are Not Under Oath they chant, " Russia Trump Collusion".
Yet, I agree with you. Anti-Trumper's must have a contingency plan because they love holding a "Special Counsel Gun" to Trump's head. If they could they would investigate Trump for 8 years.
If ZERO evidence of Trump Russia collusion is found, at what point should the investigation end?
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
Posted: March 21 2018 at 13:02
Trump has two choices, and these are: 1) Let Mueller continue and go to court, possibly facing jail and the loss of a large part of his fortune for crimes committed, or 2) fire Mueller (well, have him fired then) and rely on republican support to see him through any impeachment threat, which would almost certainly to happen. After all, after the tax legislation they owe him big time.
Looks like a no-brainer to me.
But, as the intelligence community would be certain to take Mueller's firing into account, I can't help wondering what contingency plan they already have in pl,ace for this happening, so as to be able to continue the investigation without him.
Joined: June 06 2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6396
Posted: March 21 2018 at 11:27
Trump will wake up one morning and see something on Fox and Friends that will tick him off and he will tweet fire Mueller, and then that will get rolled back with the WH saying that he was only joking and the Fake News was overreacting.
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npjnpj wrote:
Good one!