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Lewian 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14754
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 Posted: January 21 2018 at 08:02 |
 AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Lewian wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Anyway, I would like to apologize to fans of Banco, Kayak, Wishbone Ash, Hawkwind, Grobschnitt, Le Orme, Soft Machine, Ange and all the other second tier bands that were not included. ;) |
Art Zoyd, Cardiacs, Talk Talk, Amon Düül II?
Seriously, don't strive for completeness and don't be apologetic. You have chosen this because this is what you want us to vote on, and who complains should do their own poll.
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Well, if I added AD2 I would have to add Can as well. I didn't add Can because to me they are more krautrock. Anyway, it seems when I do these kinds of polls there are always whiners who say "how come such and such is not on here?" I just thought I would let them know some of the other bands not mentioned in the poll are good too. Some of the ones you mentioned are not classic prog kinds of bands and are post golden era. I could have added IQ and Spock's Beard among others for that matter. |
I think you didn't get the main message of my posting. 
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 07:57 |
Logan wrote:
According to the Cambridge dictionary, second tier is "used to describe a product, organization, etc. that is not among the biggest, most successful, or most important of its type". Despite how accurately one thinks the term is being used here, questions about the usefulness of the term, and its boundaries when describing something, I don't see it as an insulting term here, and of course not being the biggest and most successful in terms of sales and popularity/ knownness does not equal saying that it is of lesser quality. One might (subjectively) argue that bands in this list are more successful and important from an artistic perspective than more commercially successful projects.
Anyway, voting for Gong in this list is an easy choice for me.
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it always pays to look up several dictionaries. the Collins dictionary says this:
not in the first rank
and gives the following examples:
The jockey, Red Pollard, was a second-tier rider who had to box in order to get enough
money to eat.
second-tier ports like Rotterdam and Kao-hsiung, Taiwan
and the Urban dictionary gives these examples: When you bump someone on your MySpace top friends from the first tier (top 4) to the second tier (top 5-8).
For some reason, people become overly offended when they don't make the top friends list, so demoting someone is a direct insult.
My best friend slept with my crush, so I second-tiered the bitch.
englishbaby, a site for learning English, gives this definition:
second-rate; of the second best category
Examples: Marlin really wanted to go to Harvard, but he had to settle for a second-tier school.
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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twosteves
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC/Rhinebeck
Status: Offline
Points: 4091
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 07:21 |
dwill123 wrote:
Focus. I don't know how a band that has Jan Akkerman on guitar can be called 'second tier'. |
true---and I chose Focus .
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mlkpad14
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2017
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 665
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 06:23 |
Barbu wrote:
Gong |
I agree. Without a doubt.
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https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: infinity
Status: Offline
Points: 30850
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 06:21 |
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Gong
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gr8dane
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 11 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1127
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 05:48 |
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PFM.Like the others too.All great bands.
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Shake & bake.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35951
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 05:44 |
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According to the Cambridge dictionary, second tier is "used to describe a product, organization, etc. that is not among the biggest, most successful, or most important of its type". Despite how accurately one thinks the term is being used here, questions about the usefulness of the term, and its boundaries when describing something, I don't see it as an insulting term here, and of course not being the biggest and most successful in terms of sales and popularity/ knownness does not equal saying that it is of lesser quality. One might (subjectively) argue that bands in this list are more successful and important from an artistic perspective than more commercially successful projects.
Anyway, voting for Gong in this list is an easy choice for me.
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 04:52 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
I didn't include Magma, Camel, GG or VDGG because I thought they were obviously more popular than the ones I listed(with the possible exception of Caravan and UK)and thought I would try to make it more of an even match here. I almost included Starcastle since I wanted to have at least one US band but they didn't quite make the cut. Including Triumvirat might have been a mistake but I know there is one guy on here who is fanatical about them so I included them. :P |
I haven´t seen almost any Magma fans here. Are they on the winter-rest?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 04:13 |
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Torn between Gong and Renaissance.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 01:54 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
What does that make, say, Gnidrolog ?? Eleventh tier ?? |
They are among a group that transcend the imposed prog caste system.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 8955
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 00:27 |
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Strawbs. But Renaissance and Eloy are very close behind
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 00:17 |
presdoug wrote:
Triumvirat |
Who else ??
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8619
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Posted: January 21 2018 at 00:09 |
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Triumvirat
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 23:31 |
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To me it was fight between Caravan and Gong, but I took Caravan because I just have been in the big Caravan mood recently. Really love Strawbs and Renaissance too.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 22:26 |
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What does that make, say, Gnidrolog ?? Eleventh tier ??
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 21:38 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
[where does "first tier" end and "second tier" begin? ]
First tier ends with King Crimson.
Second tier begins with Gentle Giant.
Just my opinion? Not really. It seems to be consensus based on all the time I've spent on prog forums over the years. Also, it seems that the whole tier thing is more about popularity and exposure than anything else. It's in no way meant to suggest that the lesser known bands don't have great albums that are in some cases as good as the so called first tier bands.
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yes, just your opinion. once again, the term is meaningless for me. not only that, it is in my opinion an insult to call a band "second tier". "oh dear, you're just second tier hrmph hrmph". popularity is not an indicator for quality, as you yourself remarked. I would have had no objection had you called your post "less popular bands". but "second tier"? a big NO
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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YESESIS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2017
Location: Maine
Status: Offline
Points: 2215
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 21:22 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
First tier ends with King Crimson.
Second tier begins with Gentle Giant. |
This looks right to me. If first tier is Yes, Genesis, ELP, KC. And then second tier is Gentle Giant, Camel, VdGG...
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 18301
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 21:12 |
[ where does "first tier" end and "second tier" begin? ]
First tier ends with King Crimson.
Second tier begins with Gentle Giant.
Just my opinion? Not really. It seems to be consensus based on all the time I've spent on prog forums over the years. Also, it seems that the whole tier thing is more about popularity and exposure than anything else. It's in no way meant to suggest that the lesser known bands don't have great albums that are in some cases as good as the so called first tier bands.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 20 2018 at 21:15
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 20:51 |
"second tier" is in my opinion a meaningless term. who the hell defines this? where does "first tier" end and "second tier" begin? and what is ""second tier" for one may just as well be "first tier" for someone else. so I totally reject this term. and you put Gong in this "second tier" 
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233
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Posted: January 20 2018 at 20:38 |
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I have to go with PFM.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Second tier bands
