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WeepingElf View Drop Down
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Points: 373 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2016 at 07:47
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

this debate actually make me think of Krautrock. Krautrock stood for a certain kind of music, represented by certain artists like Amon Düül 2, Can, Guru Guru or Tangerine Dream (the latter being filed under "Electronic"). it does NOT stand for "prog rock from Germany").


Yep. Simply put, the difference lies in that prog is into structured, multi-part compositions, while Krautrock is more into repetitions and collective improvisations. Also, West Germany had its own prog bands, distinct from Krautrock, in the '70s such as Eloy, Grobschnitt, Hölderlin, Novalis or Triumvirat. (There was also East German prog, such as Stern Combo Meißen, but AFAIK no East German Krautrock.)



Edited by WeepingElf - June 05 2016 at 07:59
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2016 at 05:17
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Guru Guru being a fine example.

indeed


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Points: 15926 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2016 at 05:04
^ Guru Guru being a fine example.
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Points: 10387 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2016 at 04:58
this debate actually make me think of Krautrock. Krautrock stood for a certain kind of music, represented by certain artists like Amon Düül 2, Can, Guru Guru or Tangerine Dream (the latter being filed under "Electronic"). it does NOT stand for "prog rock from Germany"). which is why I believe many bands are wrongly filed under the Krautrock moniker. what's more, many of these bands changed their styles frequently (sometimes drastically), which is why I support that it should be possible to assign more than one genre to a band and that genre classifications should be given to albums rather than bands.

example: a fictitious band (let's name them "Rorschach Test-Tubes") publishes an album named "Hilarious Hypotheses" which falls under "RIO/Avant". for their second album "Premium Disaster Card" they switch to hard prog. for their third album  "Cloudy Collapse" they decide to go eclectic. then the band would have the "RIO/Avant", "hard prog", and "eclectic" genres assigned to them, while the albums themselves get the appropriate genre assigned


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Points: 1840 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 05 2016 at 02:56
Originally posted by andreol263 andreol263 wrote:

->I can't stand Rush, not because the Hard-Prog style, but the Lee's Vocal are terrible!
I agree! For this reason I never really got into Rush music.

Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Anything that Peter Hammill sings on is more or less overwrought and excruciating, and I cringe most of the time when I hear his histrionic wail.
A shame, because I can tell the music of VdGG behind his voice is terrific.
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I think Matthew Parmenter a far superior singer, performer than Peter Hammill
Finally someone said it! I like the music of VdGG but the vocals irritate me sometimes. I think Hammill uses too much tremolo in his singing. One of the reasons that I prefer Discipline over VdGG.

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I feel that here are prejudices against women in prog world.
Is this an unusual prog opinion? I am afraid, it is simply the truth ...Cry

Originally posted by LittleBig LittleBig wrote:

Originally posted by Lewa Lewa wrote:

Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?
I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.
Damnation (2003)
Heritage (2011)
Pale Communion (2014)
Heritage and Pale Communion are two of my favourite prog albums! Thumbs Up
When I first heard them I thought: wow, finally they are doing prog!
I do not care about the rest of Opeth's discography.

So now my very unusual prog opinion:

- Supertramp is one of my favourite bands (next to King Crimson, Yes and Genesis),
and I also like the solo albums of Roger Hodgson.  Tongue
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Points: 2603 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2016 at 10:11
Why is it that prog fans are always appeasing punk by saying so-and-so thickie-dunce punk liked such-and-so-forth prog band so therefore it (prog band) must be good. Bit passive-aggressive approval seeking no?
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Points: 1774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2016 at 02:19
Originally posted by aglasshouse aglasshouse wrote:

- Phish is deserving of eclectic prog status
- Phil Collins Genesis is superior to Peter Gabriel's, specifically their self-titled in '83
- I like Electric Cafe / Techno Pop
- Piper At The Gates of Dawn is terrible
- I don't care for Magma and I strongly dislike ELP
- Progressive metal overall is a joke of a genre
- Dave Matthews Band has prog elements
- Atom Heart Mother outstrips Echoes in terms of quality
- Shine On You Crazy Diamond is undeservingly overrated compared to the rest of WYWH
- My least favorite Yes album is Close To The Edge
- Thick as a Brick is not even close to JT's best work
- I hate Robert Fripp with passion (that may not be too controversial), as well as dislike most of KC's work.

A bit harsh, sorry. Embarrassed



I agree with most of this.
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Points: 1505 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 23:57
- Phish is deserving of eclectic prog status
- Phil Collins Genesis is superior to Peter Gabriel's, specifically their self-titled in '83
- I like Electric Cafe / Techno Pop
- Piper At The Gates of Dawn is terrible
- I don't care for Magma and I strongly dislike ELP
- Progressive metal overall is a joke of a genre
- Dave Matthews Band has prog elements
- Atom Heart Mother outstrips Echoes in terms of quality
- Shine On You Crazy Diamond is undeservingly overrated compared to the rest of WYWH
- My least favorite Yes album is Close To The Edge
- Thick as a Brick is not even close to JT's best work
- I hate Robert Fripp with passion (that may not be too controversial), as well as dislike most of KC's work.

A bit harsh, sorry. Embarrassed




Edited by aglasshouse - June 03 2016 at 00:14
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Points: 12841 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 22:14
Originally posted by Lewa Lewa wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by LittleBig LittleBig wrote:

Originally posted by Lewa Lewa wrote:

Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?

I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.


Damnation (2003)
Heritage (2011)
Pale Communion (2014)


Those are the 3 whole non-grunting albums they have released so far, though surely they will continue that way. What dissapoints me is that those albums have just about no metal in theim either, and I wanted metal Opeth without grunting. Now, besides those albums, there are some songs without grunting that I also like a lot:
- Soldier of Fortune (Deep Purple cover).
- Remember Tomorrow (Iron Maiden cover).
- Would? (cover also, I just forgot from who... I think Alice in Chains).
- Den Standinga Resan (Marie Fredrickson cover... yes, the one from Roxette).
- Epilogue.
- Face of Melinda.
- Harvest.
- A Fair Judgement.
- Atonement.

And Watershed, though still a grunting album, has already many songs without them:
- Coil.
- Burden.
- Porcelain Heart.
- Hex Omega.

Also, I very much prefer the live version of Damnation on the album "Lamentations", specially Closure, which is my favourite song from the album (and one of my favourites from the band). And "The Drapery Falls" though it's got grunting, is so brilliant that I can't help but love it, specially the version on Lamentations too.


Wow! Thank you so much for the detailed song-by-song information.

This is immensly helpful.



Well, I was exactly in your same dilemma when I was interested to get to know Opeth... and that was before Heritage and Pale Comunion, actually, so I know this information would be very useful. I don't remember if someone actually gave me such a list, or more likely I just found it in a post of an Opeth thread... but I might have had to look for such songs in several threads and posts and reviews... but I guess there must have been one particular very useful post/thread. However, I have all this songs in my ITunes Opeth list, so it was very easy to open it and check them out. Many of this songs I actually bought individually on ITunes, for I wouldn't want the whole album. There's one song I also liked I wasn't able to buy because it was over 10 minutes, I think it's "To Bid you Farewell".
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Points: 105 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 10:56
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by LittleBig LittleBig wrote:

Originally posted by Lewa Lewa wrote:

Hi. Could you perhaps recommend a clean vocals Opeth album?

I didn't even know they had them and might give them another chance.


Damnation (2003)
Heritage (2011)
Pale Communion (2014)


Those are the 3 whole non-grunting albums they have released so far, though surely they will continue that way. What dissapoints me is that those albums have just about no metal in theim either, and I wanted metal Opeth without grunting. Now, besides those albums, there are some songs without grunting that I also like a lot:
- Soldier of Fortune (Deep Purple cover).
- Remember Tomorrow (Iron Maiden cover).
- Would? (cover also, I just forgot from who... I think Alice in Chains).
- Den Standinga Resan (Marie Fredrickson cover... yes, the one from Roxette).
- Epilogue.
- Face of Melinda.
- Harvest.
- A Fair Judgement.
- Atonement.

And Watershed, though still a grunting album, has already many songs without them:
- Coil.
- Burden.
- Porcelain Heart.
- Hex Omega.

Also, I very much prefer the live version of Damnation on the album "Lamentations", specially Closure, which is my favourite song from the album (and one of my favourites from the band). And "The Drapery Falls" though it's got grunting, is so brilliant that I can't help but love it, specially the version on Lamentations too.


Wow! Thank you so much for the detailed song-by-song information.

This is immensly helpful.
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Points: 24 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2016 at 09:54
For whatever reason, I can't get into 90's prog. Maybe because the synthesizer sounds back then were kind of cheesy. I think the only exception so far is "The Wake" by IQ.
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Points: 92 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2016 at 05:49
I guess it's easier to say which albums don't impress me as much as the general prog public. I liked Renaissance's Prologue but haven't been able to get into Scheherazade. I prefer Genesis' Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme over Selling England... I do love three songs off the Yes album so much that I actually like the album more than Fragile and Close to the Edge, even though I like songs on those two albums nearly as much. Thick as a Brick has some great moments but the whole thing doesn't excite me. Lamb Lies Down... It's a chore to listen to the whole thing at once.

The list goes on I guess. Sometimes the albums with a lot of mixed reviews appeal to me more than the classics that everyone loves. Van der Graaf Generator, King Crimson, The Soft Machine... Some of these are in my collection only for a track or two or they still haven't won my wallet open yet.  

We all have our opinions on music, eh?
I used to be a fan of particular bands like Rush, Yes, and Deep Purple. Now I travel the Proglands, exploring a little bit of everything. I have become a Prog Voyager.
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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 12:17
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

I'm re-evaluating my previous post about RPI. It hadn't dawned on me that there are some subgenres that are linked geographically (mostly, but not always), such as Canterbury, Zeuhl, and Krautrock. I think my difficulties lie with how eclectic RPI is. Well, regardless of the confusion, RPI has been a wonderful experience for me even if I don't necessarily know why things are the way they are.
 
Exploring the genres and unearthing stuff you wouldn't necessarily expect to find there is part of the fun!
 
I mean I'm not really that into what you might characterise as classic RPI - the lushly symphonic bands with lovely lyrical melodies and grandiloquent vocals - but a lot of the stuff around the "edges" of the genre is pure gold to me.
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Points: 53430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 11:18
I'm re-evaluating my previous post about RPI. It hadn't dawned on me that there are some subgenres that are linked geographically (mostly, but not always), such as Canterbury, Zeuhl, and Krautrock. I think my difficulties lie with how eclectic RPI is. Well, regardless of the confusion, RPI has been a wonderful experience for me even if I don't necessarily know why things are the way they are.
 
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Points: 160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 08:51
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I'm also probably not the only person on Prog Archives to say it.  However, the forum section is so large that it's a little hard to search.  I think The Cure are more creative and innovative than many neo-prog or post-rock bands.  They would fit very nicely under the Prog Related banner.
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 08:44
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

If you guys have trouble understanding the reasoning behind PAs inclusion of RPI as a genre of prog rock, then why not read up on it? 
It's all right hereSmile


Cheers, Dave....I didn't have the patience, the frame of mind or deodorant strong enough to last how long it would take to explain the differences this time around (plus my back is killing me at the moment!), so nice save, pal!
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Points: 23108 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 08:01
If you guys have trouble understanding the reasoning behind PAs inclusion of RPI as a genre of prog rock, then why not read up on it? 
It's all right hereSmile
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Points: 53430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 07:51
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ I always wondered why Italy gets its own sub here. Not that i don't love the music, it's just that it doesn't say anything about the music. Area is avant-prog x jazz-fusion, PFM are clearly symphonic, Osanna is more in the heavy prog realms early on. Russian prog has unique features too, so IMHO we either include more countries to the list or get rid of the RPI category. 
 
This thought has crossed my mind more than once over the years. I've been listening to a lot of groups outside of the Anglo-American area and I find nearly all of them have incorporated some local and national attributes into their form of prog rock. I don't find a sonic connection between all the RPI groups; their styles are across all of the prog subgenres. I also re-read the fourth section on the RPI description on PA titled "Musical features of RPI" and a lot of these features can be found in other countries as well, except for the Italian language. Are not classical influences, national musical traditions, romanticism, baroque influences, theatric/operatic vocals, quiet-loud-quiet transitions, and exotic instruments also found in prog groups from other countries?
 
If you listen to several groups from France, isn't there a "French-ness" to their music? A "German" quality to German groups? A Spanish quality to Spanish groups? A Polish quality to Polish groups? A British quality to British groups?  A Swedish quality to Swedish groups? A Japanese quality to Japanese groups? Etc., etc, etc. Each country or region adds something to their local blend of prog rock.
 
I am by no means an expert on any of this. I've been listening to a lot of RPI over the last year and am really enjoying it. Yes, there is a clear Italian or Mediterranean quality to the music. But I also get this same feeling when listening to music from other countries. Perhaps I just don't get the distinction? Perhaps I need to be enlightened? Perhaps I need a few more years of listening to RPI under my belt???
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Points: 17452 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 07:49
Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

It would have been interesting to hear what ELO would have been if that guy that left the band after the debut had remained (can't remember his name).
 
That would have been Roy Wood. He had a knack for picking up any instrument and playing it on the spot without any prior training.



Wood was the "Brian Jones" of ELO?  Wink

I just remember last time I played that first album it knocked my socks off, compared to their later stuff which I'm fairly  ho-hum about.
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Points: 53430 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2016 at 06:49
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

It would have been interesting to hear what ELO would have been if that guy that left the band after the debut had remained (can't remember his name).
 
That would have been Roy Wood. He had a knack for picking up any instrument and playing it on the spot without any prior training.
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