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Topic ClosedIs the original Prog left-wing?
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Points: 617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 15:31
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

A good case in point. There was once a 70's band, that exibited some quite right wing views.  They were ostraczed in their country and were reduced to playing shows for their lunatic followers. Fast forward 40 years and that band came up for discussion for addition here to PA's.  Were they included?
Which band was this? (PM me if you don't want to stir the argument up again.)
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Points: 664 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 14:49
Left and right vary so greatly depending on cultural context. That being said, it would be hard not to characterize most rock music as left-leaning. The phrase, "sex, drugs, and rock and roll," doesn't exactly conjure images of the John Birch Society. 

And Rush is extremely leftist, IMNSHO. Evidence: Geddy Lee's hair hangs below the top of his ears, and he has worn blue jeans and tennis shoes in public. And displaying running laundry machines on stage is highly non-conformist and unbecoming of anybody who would characterize themselves as conservative. Furthermore, women have been known to attend Rush concerts without corsets and bloomers. Any band that would take the stage under such untenable conditions fails even the most casual conservative litmus test. 

I remember when a large part of the population felt that Elvis' hip motions and electric guitars were going to lead to the end of the civilized world. I guess they did, and that's a good thing!  Beer 
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Points: 3829 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 14:16
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:


I'm not sure about the positions of left versus right vis-a-vis hogweed invasions.

Horticulture is full of eugenics.. Selective breeding, inferior types that need to be 'bred out'..LOL and of course the Victorian plant hunters obsession which is satirised in that song!!

Many of the British and European progressive groups satirised the establishment and the political norms of the day which I think made them (mildly) anti-establishment rather than overtly political one way or the other.

Bands like Hawkwind, Gong, Edgar Broughton, Man, Henry Cow, Robert Wyatt, Roy Harper etc did numerous benefit concerts for what might be deemed by some as left wing causes in the early 70's and later were joined by The Enid, the Cardiacs and Here and Now at free festival, environmental, CND and Peace movement benefits.. again, what some would consider as left-wing...

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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 13:38
Genesis' The Knife and One for the Vine portray war in a negative fashion. So does Hackett's Tigermoth.

I'm not sure about the positions of left versus right vis-a-vis hogweed invasions.

One of Hackett's most poignant lyrics was India Rubber Man, which is about the despair of abandoning lofty goals in exchange for selling out. I take this to be leftward leaning. A lot of the 60s and 70s in general, though, were about looking inward and freeing your mind, and less about re-organizing society. That was true of all genres, not just Prog.

Edited by HackettFan - January 16 2016 at 14:13
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Points: 13127 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 13:32
I don't necessarily consider prog bands to have been "left-leaning" back in the day, but more so anti-establishment, a hangover from the 60s. Ian Anderson mocked the Church of England, Rogers Waters ripped Mary Whitehouse on "Pigs", ELP warned of rampant technology on "Karn Evil 9", King Crimson dabbled in anti-consumerism on "Cat Food" and war-mongering on "21st Century Schizoid Man", Genesis also mocked consumerism on "Cinema Show" and "Aisle of Plenty", etc. But in all these cases, whether Tull, Floyd, ELP, King Crimson or Genesis, I wouldn't consider any of them left-leaning. They've all seemed to become comfortably conservative over the years.
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 13:26
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

I think most classic-era prog artists leaned to the left, though to different degrees; this also appears to be true for later prog until today. Claims to the existence of right-wing prog usually come from Americans who define "right" as "more freedom" and "left" as "more state", which is not what the terms mean at least in Europe. Surely, the Nazis were extremely statist, but I hope everyone agrees that they were a far-right movement.

See also this thread.

Freedom loving versus statism is how conservatives in the US would and do describe the difference between conservatives and liberals, even as they complain about the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). They are not real consistent, and liberals in the US, among whom I count myself, would NOT describe the distinction in the same fashion. I'm afraid I have indeed heard conservative intellectuals here in the US on multiple occasions assert that Nazis were leftist because of their statism and made great hay out the Nazis political self-identification as National Socialists. No, I don't buy into that either.
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Points: 24 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 12:10
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Rush.

They're certainly not Progressive - see The Trees for example. Their leaning is at least individualist (as opposed to the Progressive communitarian foundations) - see Anthem, 2112. I don't think you could call them conservative, but at least a little bit libertarian ("his mind is not for rent / to any god or government").


Edited by MoebiusStreet - January 16 2016 at 12:12
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Points: 6446 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:48
Let's keep it simple...

"Progressive rock" is an adjective, not a cultural movement. Most rock musicians in the 1970s (and most 20-somethings at the time) were generally speaking 'left-wing'. Some people like Wakeman or Ian Anderson could be described as 'right-wing'(which proves that 'Prog' was anything but a united movement). 

Both Zappa and Fripp didn't do drugs but did groupies. Does not doing drugs make them right-wing? Does doing groupies make them left-wing? I look at it this way: there were humans and they did (or didn't) do human stuff and did (or didn't) think human things and made music and journalists called it "progressive rock". 


Edited by zravkapt - January 16 2016 at 11:49
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Points: 17856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:32
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

In Europe, most progressive musicians are also progressive-leaning in political terms. Not so in the US, where there are quite a few right-wing-leaning characters among the artists and the fandom. Just remember that left and right are rather different concepts in Europe and in the US.
 
And if you are interested, reading the Eurock book would help bring this about. There were a lot of bands that were political and theatrical in those early days, for various reasons, but saying that one was better known than the other is kinda weird and probably badly informed. However, the English bands, could be said to not be that political and try to hide their journalism. Witness Genesis ... where things were fairly well hidden behind the mask of something else, and I call that (sometimes!!! needle needle, Peter!) ... entertainment! So American!
 
Like saying that bands in Ireland were not political at the time, and they were ... and VERY much so ... albeit, we will hide that stuff for being "politically correct".
 
In the US, this is a joke ... there is no left or right in America ... just Raider fans or Giants fans, or Lakers fans or Knicks fans, and the like, and no one really cares otherwise, because if they did, a lot of states would lose many of their politicians over night!


Edited by moshkito - January 16 2016 at 11:33
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Points: 14318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:13
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:11
poison?  I wasn't joking in Terri's thread. It is war... for the heart and soul of this country. One uses intellect and their minds, the other fear and base emotions.. and when that fails.. the guns they so dearly love.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:06
Originally posted by ginodi ginodi wrote:

Please take this message as just a simple rolling of the eyes, for we are all cool friends for the most part, but can we ditch politics for at least once? If you are in the U.S., it seems you can't talk about something without it resorting to politics at some point. For example...meet someone on the street and say it is rather cold out, and the reply..."yeah, how's that for the Liberals and their Global Warming, huh?" Had a guy tell me he can't listen to early Bob Dylan because he spouted Liberal bullsh*t. EGADS! I am sure there probably is right or left leaning political messages within lyrics of the music we love most, but most of it probably speaks for a certain period in time. Just an innocent observation and posting...no malice intended. 


I agree with you 100%. Politics in the US has become poison, and destroyed many friendships. I'd rather talk about music.
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Points: 14318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:04
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

I think most classic-era prog artists leaned to the left, though to different degrees; this also appears to be true for later prog until today. Claims to the existence of right-wing prog usually come from Americans who define "right" as "more freedom" and "left" as "more state", which is not what the terms mean at least in Europe. Surely, the Nazis were extremely statist, but I hope everyone agrees that they were a far-right movement.

See also this thread.


Excellent point. Discussing with yankees I've always struggled in understanding some of their positions, This clarifies things a lot.
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Points: 14318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 11:02
Prog I don't know... I am surely.

Anyway, if we go to the Italian scene of the 60s and 70s, prog was part of the counter-culture, so it was naturally more left-winged, but it wasnět a rule. Stormy Six, Area and others were very involved in politics, but others were not that much. Lucio Battisti, who honestly I don't cosider prog but is on PA, was quite right winged, or he was told so. Genesis fans were less left-winged than Pink Floyd fans, but also in this case it was not a rule. I think that what matters is that the artists are honest. I'm atheist and I like Neal Morse. I'm left-winged and I like celtic-metal. When it goes to music, it's music that matters, then if I agree with the contents it's better, but not a must. 
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Points: 373 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 10:53
I think most classic-era prog artists leaned to the left, though to different degrees; this also appears to be true for later prog until today. Claims to the existence of right-wing prog usually come from Americans who define "right" as "more freedom" and "left" as "more state", which is not what the terms mean at least in Europe. Surely, the Nazis were extremely statist, but I hope everyone agrees that they were a far-right movement.

See also this thread.



Edited by WeepingElf - January 16 2016 at 10:55
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Points: 62 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 10:36
Please take this message as just a simple rolling of the eyes, for we are all cool friends for the most part, but can we ditch politics for at least once? If you are in the U.S., it seems you can't talk about something without it resorting to politics at some point. For example...meet someone on the street and say it is rather cold out, and the reply..."yeah, how's that for the Liberals and their Global Warming, huh?" Had a guy tell me he can't listen to early Bob Dylan because he spouted Liberal bullsh*t. EGADS! I am sure there probably is right or left leaning political messages within lyrics of the music we love most, but most of it probably speaks for a certain period in time. Just an innocent observation and posting...no malice intended. 
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Points: 46838 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 10:33
hah!

this was selected as the prog 'national anthem' for a reason..
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Points: 7024 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 09:53
Most were, but a few (Hudson, Ford and Wakeman) from Strawbs were active Conservative supporters. Bryan Ferry is also a right winger.

Edited by Hercules - January 16 2016 at 09:54
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Points: 347 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 09:32
I think Camel and Steve Hackett have both made very Left wing songs. Wasn't Hackett's for a Left-wing cause?
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Points: 1376 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2016 at 08:27
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

In Europe, most progressive musicians are also progressive-leaning in political terms. Not so in the US, where there are quite a few right-wing-leaning characters among the artists and the fandom. Just remember that left and right are rather different concepts in Europe and in the US.

Oh, that is true. In Brazil, there is a whole confusion nowadays on what is left and right, also because we have too much influence on both Europe and US... so, we deal with both concepts... gosh, its complicated! LOL
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