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Topic ClosedBritish Proto-Prog
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Poll Question: Which of these do you prefer? (Beatles omitted)
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6 [26.09%]
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1 [4.35%]
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1 [4.35%]
1 [4.35%]
1 [4.35%]
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3 [13.04%]
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8 [34.78%]
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:49
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
It's very simple actually. Originaly, "Proto-prog" is the term for heavy Rock sound  without much of blues, without a pop-rock, without synths as a general rule ( i.e. rock music with kraut-like electronics could not be originally called "proto-prog", though Hammond organ, Mellotron, violin, harmonica etc. are welcome), but with fast rhythm & long songs that were singing by great Rock  "screamers", with infinity guitar solos played by huge number of Rock guitar masters of late 60s / early 70s, and with a touch of psych, sometimes also jazz and classical music.  That's PROTO-PROGHug


You've been confusing texture with style since the day you joined the site Svetonio. Brown Sugar has a sax on it (it ain't jazz) Crazy Horses has a Synth on it (it ain't Electronica) Go Let it Out by Oasis features a mellotron (it ain't Prog) The Endless Enigma by ELP has a Zoukra (north african flute) on it (it ain't ethnic folk)
Maybe the reason for the dearth of synths in Proto-Prog is that they weren't widely available until AFTER Dr Robert Moog actually invented them and sold same to those (wealthy) emergent Prog artists who could afford them. What do 'fast rhythms' and 'long songs' have to do with artists who formed the bridge between Psyche and Prog in the late 60's? i.e. is a slow tempo and short song indicative of some reactionary impulse to return to beat groups with matching outfits and synchronized dance routines?
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Points: 13065 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
 
This serves my point specifically. If one looks up Armageddon's 1975 album on any accredited musical site (even an uncreditable source like Wikipedia), Armageddon is referred to as "hard rock", "heavy metal" or "progressive rock". There is never, ever a mention of proto-prog. Ever. Never. Because the use of the modifier "proto" in any of its definitions must come prior to the actual advent of the specific genre (in this case, prog).
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:33
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
You are being too literal and need to be more conceptual. 

I cannot give you a definitive description of what Proto-Prog sounds like any more than you can give me a definitive description of what Progressive Rock sounds like. It's like trying to define what "Art" is - it is one of those Pythonesque "I don't know what it is but I can recognise it" type things.

One important thing to think about that is going to melt your mind is this: there is no such thing as a Proto-Prog band or artist. All the bands that are called "Proto Prog" (by either definition) made music that could (and is) classified elsewhere under "real" musicological subgenres. No one in their right mind would call The Beatles, Deep Purple or The Doors Proto-Prog bands, and no band since that time was ever formed with the idea of being a "Proto Prog" band. It is a classification not a musical genre.



You define Prog by what you recognise to be Prog, and you do that by listing all those bands you consider to be Prog even when there are no musical similarity between them. I cannot define what makes a band Progressive Rock but I can point to Floyd, Yes, ELP, Tull, Crimson and hundreds of other unrelated bands and say "they are Prog", (even when *some* of the albums they released were not Prog).

The same "issue" exists with most of our subgenres - how do you define the "sound" of Symphonic Prog or Eclectic Prog when none of the artists in those subs sound the same? Well, you can't - all you can do is point to Yes, Genesis and Camel and say "It sounds like that" or to Crimson, Gentle Giant and VdGG and say "It sounds like that".

Unfortunately we cannot quite do that here with Proto-Prog because not all the bands that created Proto Prog  type albums reside in the one PA category. As I said, there is no such animal as a Proto Prog band - just bands that made albums or recorded songs that can be thought of as precursors to Progressive Rock. But we can list some albums and tracks that fit the bill and point out the artists that made them.  So we can point to *some* of the albums by *all* the bands we have listed in Proto Prog section and *some* of the albums of *some* bands listed in other subgenres and say "Those are Proto Prog".



With all due respect to "Svetonio" (well, as much respect as I can muster), he has given a very definitive description of just one aspect of what we here at the PA would consider to be Proto Progressive Rock and no doubt as I type this he is writing yet another aggressively emphatic reply to you stressing this again. He is not wrong - that narrow definition exists in the world of buying and selling old vinyl just as the term "desirable residential area" exists in the vocabulary of the Real Estate Agent, but it is not a definition that works for the PA or in this Poll.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:30
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
 
It's not a perception, but a calculated reassessment on what bands actually helped in the formation of prog rock (hence the term proto-prog, "proto" meaning "first" and "common ancestor"). "Greasy" Hammond-playing "heavy rock" did not in any way lead to progressive rock movement as we consider it (usually beginning with In the Court of the Crimson King as a specific demarcation point); therefore, bands like The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, The Nice, Giles, Giles & Fripp, and even The Beatles can be considered progenitors of prog -- BECAUSE THEY STARTED BEFORE THE ACTUAL PROG MOVEMENT WAS RECOGNIZED (that whole "proto" thing), and not like the 70s bands we formally recognize as prog like King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull (post-Mick Abraham blues), ELP, Floyd (after their psychedelic excursions), etc.
 
So, one can't be "proto-prog" after "prog" came into existence, no matter what Svetty says.
 
Deep Purple can also be considered proto-prog, but not for the "greasy Hammond" sound Svetty is so enamored with. Rather, the baroque compositions, long instrumental passages and excerpts from classical composers (such as on The Book Of Taliesyn album) are what make Deep Purple "proto-prog" (not to mention Jon Lord's Concerto for Group and Orchestra recorded September 24, 1969). By the 70s Deep Purple retained some progginess but had pretty much slipped off into hard rock, particularly by the Machine Head album.
 
Svetty's definition is flawed because it does not take into account the music and the bands that actually led up to Prog. The earth is not flat, scientists have long ago reassessed the curvature of the earth and changed the science books to reflect that reassessment. The earth is still flat in Svetty's world.
Ha! Thus it's the earliest form of Prog? Before the term Prog was invented? Big smileHug 
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Points: 13065 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:17
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
 
It's not a perception, but a calculated reassessment on what bands actually helped in the formation of prog rock (hence the term proto-prog, "proto" meaning "first" and "common ancestor"). "Greasy" Hammond-playing "heavy rock" did not in any way lead to progressive rock movement as we consider it (usually beginning with In the Court of the Crimson King as a specific demarcation point); therefore, bands like The Moody Blues, Procol Harum, The Nice, Giles, Giles & Fripp, and even The Beatles can be considered progenitors of prog -- BECAUSE THEY STARTED BEFORE THE ACTUAL PROG MOVEMENT WAS RECOGNIZED (that whole "proto" thing), and not like the 70s bands we formally recognize as prog like King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull (post-Mick Abraham blues), ELP, Floyd (after their psychedelic excursions), etc.
 
So, one can't be "proto-prog" after "prog" came into existence, no matter what Svetty says.
 
Deep Purple can also be considered proto-prog, but not for the "greasy Hammond" sound Svetty is so enamored with. Rather, the baroque compositions, long instrumental passages and excerpts from classical composers (such as on The Book Of Taliesyn album) are what make Deep Purple "proto-prog" (not to mention Jon Lord's Concerto for Group and Orchestra recorded September 24, 1969). By the 70s Deep Purple retained some progginess but had pretty much slipped off into hard rock, particularly by the Machine Head album.
 
Svetty's definition is flawed because it does not take into account the music and the bands that actually led up to Prog. The earth is not flat, scientists have long ago reassessed the curvature of the earth and changed the science books to reflect that reassessment. The earth is still flat in Svetty's world.


Edited by The Dark Elf - March 25 2015 at 09:18
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 09:08
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
It's very simple actually. Originaly, "Proto-prog" is the term for heavy Rock sound  without much of blues, without a pop-rock, without synths as a general rule ( i.e. rock music with kraut-like electronics could not be originally called "proto-prog", though Hammond organ, Mellotron, violin, harmonica etc. are welcome), but with fast rhythm & long songs that were singing by great Rock  "screamers", with infinity guitar solos played by huge number of Rock guitar masters of late 60s / early 70s, and with a touch of psych, sometimes also jazz and classical music.  That's PROTO-PROGHug
 
p.s. One of the best Yugoslav proto-prog style songs ever recorded:
 
 
 


Edited by Svetonio - March 25 2015 at 09:24
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:39
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
You both made my perception of proto prog zero in what it possibly might be. Confused I'll ignore that term and think it's anything without orchestration plus warm tunes. Big smile
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:34
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug
Which blows clean out of the water any notion of it being "Proto-Prog" just because of how it sounds to you. Such a suggestion does a disservice to the band, the memory of Keith Relf, and other heavy rock artists such as Steamhammer and Warhorse (none of whom would be listed here as Proto Prog).
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:30
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Oh yes I see what you mean with the artwork, the music however Confused
Personally I love Art Nouveau so their psychedelic re-imagining of the Beardsley, Mucha and Klimt (and even Rackham) is always going to appeal to me. As artists they were hugely influential in 1960s London and on the Psychedelic scene, inspiring the psychedelic imagery & fashion of The Beatles, The Stones and Hendrix and many more besides.

I'm not surprised you didn't care for the music since you've not given any indication that you like avant prog or Krautrock music in general.

Prog is a very broad church and so by that any notion of proto- is going to be even broader. Few people like every aspect of Progressive Rock so it is to be expected that not everyone will like what influenced the formation of Progressive Rock. Every facet of what we think of as Progressive Rock draws its influence from somewhere and so restricting the idea of Proto-Prog to one identifying sound or style of music simply doesn't make archaeological sense, even if a nice tidy definition makes sense to people who sell and collect used vinyl.

True Dean I do not know nor do enjoy Kraurock so far I know, but to sum me up in short, my favorite songs are Salisbury and July Morning by Uriah Heep, Roundabout by Yes, Parents by Budgie,  Carpet Crawlers and the knife by- Genesis,   Lynyrd Skynyrd - Freebird, King Crimson - Starless and Epithap, Al DiMeola - Race with the devil on a Spanish highway, Tom Waits - "Hold On", etc plus all if not all most songs by Corvus Stone, Pain of Salvation, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, early before 80's Bowie, Roger Waters, Miles Davis etc. Big smileBig smile   

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:20
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

(proto-prog=Hammond organ driven heavy rock that was played on late 60s / early 70s, mainly British, but can be detected in USA and other countries too)
 
That is the most daft and incorrect definition for proto-prog I have ever heard. I think we went through this before on this forum and decided you didn't know what you were talking about. It doesn't get any better the second time around.
Hammond organ driven, is July Morning original here with Ken Hensley proto prog? I bet I sound like an idiot I know. I am the worst ninny sorry Stern Smile but am very curious tho' xxx
Kati, the word PROTO in proto-prog the term at the time when the term "proto-prog" was invented in mid 70s by the records dealers to firm that late 60s / early 70s heavy rock with a touch od psych, jazz and classical music, meant not "earliest prog" nor some "non-formed-yet-in-fully-prog" stuff.
It's like *symphonic rock* the term; "symphonic" actually doesn't mean that a symphony orchestra playing along with a band nor when a band playing the covers of Classical music pieces in the form of rock music. So that the "proto-prog" sound (term) - which in some cases we called *heavy prog* due to hell of reasons - actually was the style of Rock (not pop-rock) with heavy, sumptuously played, mainly long songs with long solos but without synthesizers (I repeat what I said earlier in this thread: no synths was a general rule - if the music contains synths it wasn't called "proto-prog") can be detected easily  after In the Court of the Crimson King  the album release date,  up to 'til the mid seventies - and even in UK Hug
Oh no Sventonio besides the above you mentioned I have found no similarities to jazz that has heavy bass influence plus has tunes. I found this lacking so far in terms of what I found in bands related to proto-prog. Hug
Oh and that song of which I posted the link as an example of proto-prog sound in my previous post is from the album released in 1975 by British "super-group" called Armageddon - already in PA as a heavy prog act LOL Hug

Edited by Svetonio - March 25 2015 at 08:23
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:19
Just to further pop the bubble of preconception and narrow definitions.

Hapshash's 1967 debut album was called "Hapshash and the Coloured Coat Featuring The Human Host And The Heavy Metal Kids"

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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:06
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

(proto-prog=Hammond organ driven heavy rock that was played on late 60s / early 70s, mainly British, but can be detected in USA and other countries too)
 
That is the most daft and incorrect definition for proto-prog I have ever heard. I think we went through this before on this forum and decided you didn't know what you were talking about. It doesn't get any better the second time around.
Hammond organ driven, is July Morning original here with Ken Hensley proto prog? I bet I sound like an idiot I know. I am the worst ninny sorry Stern Smile but am very curious tho' xxx
Kati, the word PROTO in proto-prog the term at the time when the term "proto-prog" was invented in mid 70s by the records dealers to firm that late 60s / early 70s heavy rock with a touch od psych, jazz and classical music, meant not "earliest prog" nor some "non-formed-yet-in-fully-prog" stuff.
It's like *symphonic rock* the term; "symphonic" actually doesn't mean that a symphony orchestra playing along with a band nor when a band playing the covers of Classical music pieces in the form of rock music. So that the "proto-prog" sound (term) - which in some cases we called *heavy prog* due to hell of reasons - actually was the style of Rock (not pop-rock) with heavy, sumptuously played, mainly long songs with long solos but without synthesizers (I repeat what I said earlier in this thread: no synths was a general rule - if the music contains synths it wasn't called "proto-prog") can be detected easily  after In the Court of the Crimson King  the album release date,  up to 'til the mid seventies - and even in UK Hug
Oh no Sventonio besides the above you mentioned I have found no similarities to jazz that has heavy bass influence plus has tunes. I found this lacking so far in terms of what I found in bands related to proto-prog. Hug
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:05
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Oh yes I see what you mean with the artwork, the music however Confused
Personally I love Art Nouveau so their psychedelic re-imagining of the Beardsley, Mucha and Klimt (and even Rackham) is always going to appeal to me. As artists they were hugely influential in 1960s London and on the Psychedelic scene, inspiring the psychedelic imagery & fashion of The Beatles, The Stones and Hendrix and many more besides.

I'm not surprised you didn't care for the music since you've not given any indication that you like avant prog or Krautrock music in general.

Prog is a very broad church and so by that any notion of proto- is going to be even broader. Few people like every aspect of Progressive Rock so it is to be expected that not everyone will like what influenced the formation of Progressive Rock. Every facet of what we think of as Progressive Rock draws its influence from somewhere and so restricting the idea of Proto-Prog to one identifying sound or style of music simply doesn't make archaeological sense, even if a nice tidy definition makes sense to people who sell and collect used vinyl.


Edited by Dean - March 25 2015 at 08:06
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 08:01
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion Ouchhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I

Edited by Kati - March 25 2015 at 08:02
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:59
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

(proto-prog=Hammond organ driven heavy rock that was played on late 60s / early 70s, mainly British, but can be detected in USA and other countries too)
 
That is the most daft and incorrect definition for proto-prog I have ever heard. I think we went through this before on this forum and decided you didn't know what you were talking about. It doesn't get any better the second time around.
Hammond organ driven, is July Morning original here with Ken Hensley proto prog? I bet I sound like an idiot I know. I am the worst ninny sorry Stern Smile but am very curious tho' xxx
Kati, the word PROTO in proto-prog the term at the time when the term "proto-prog" was invented in mid 70s by the records dealers to firm that late 60s / early 70s heavy rock with a touch od psych, jazz and classical music, meant not "earliest prog" nor some "non-formed-yet-in-fully-prog" stuff.
It's like *symphonic rock* the term; "symphonic" actually doesn't mean that a symphony orchestra playing along with a band nor when a band playing the covers of Classical music pieces in the form of rock music. So that the "proto-prog" sound (term) - which in some cases we called *heavy prog* due to hell of reasons - actually was the style of Rock (not pop-rock) with heavy, sumptuously played, mainly long songs with long solos but without synthesizers (I repeat what I said earlier in this thread: no synths was a general rule - if the music contains synths it wasn't called "proto-prog") can be detected easily  after In the Court of the Crimson King  the album release date,  up to 'til the mid seventies - and even in UK Hug


Edited by Svetonio - March 25 2015 at 08:00
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:54
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Ha! I cheated and googled a proto band thus found this but still not sure if I like it although I like the guitar tune on my right and rhythm guitar center. Nah no don't like this, I do like music with harmonies but nah not this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jvD1SdoqTo
hihihi guitar now almost Al DiMeola but not, actually it gets better now the song. Ha! Yay I DO LIKE THIS! I DO!
They are weird.
changed my mind they are very sharp, one or two tracks had enough now.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:51
Ha! I cheated and googled a proto band thus found this but still not sure if I like it although I like the guitar tune on my right and rhythm guitar center. Nah no don't like this, I do like music with harmonies but nah not this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jvD1SdoqTo
hihihi guitar now almost Al DiMeola but not, actually it gets better now the song. Ha! Yay I DO LIKE THIS! I DO!
They are weird.


Edited by Kati - March 25 2015 at 07:52
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:44
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Anyway, enough of that nonsense.

Another band that is of interest is Hapshash & The Coloured Coat, though their music is perhaps a lot less well known than their art, which was far more influential and popular. Few people have probably ever heard their music but we can all recognise the posters and album covers they created for other people:



Big smile


So, to their Proto-Prog music:

Just listen to this track from 1967:

Sorry there's no Hammond organ there, nor is it "greasy" sounding - but doesn't that invoke the spirit of Krautrock (two years before it came out of Germany) Approve


Oh yes I see what you mean with the artwork, the music however Confused
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:36
Anyway, enough of that nonsense.

Another band that is of interest is Hapshash & The Coloured Coat, though their music is perhaps a lot less well known than their art, which was far more influential and popular. Few people have probably ever heard their music but we can all recognise the posters and album covers they created for other people:



Big smile


So, to their Proto-Prog music:

Just listen to this track from 1967:

Sorry there's no Hammond organ there, nor is it "greasy" sounding - but doesn't that invoke the spirit of Krautrock (two years before it came out of Germany) Approve
What?
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2015 at 07:28
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Dean, I quote you: "Our "Proto Prog" section is not a musical/musicological subgenre, it is a just a historic classification that acts as a safety net to catch those early bands that didn't "progress" onto becoming fully-fledged Progressive Rock bands."
This unfortunately still did not clarify my thick brain what proto prog means Ouch
Not turned into fully fledged prog rock bands, thus were the beach boys proto prog? (before you say no look and listen to this it's fab really Big smile The Beach Boys SMiLE Sessions - Heroes and Villains Music Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptxwWt2JeGQ ? xxxxx
LOL I'm not going to get drawn into another endless, fruitless and pointless debate on The Beach Boys. They were an influential band that is not to be denied and the (staged) rivalry between Wilson and The Beatles cannot be ignored. But I cannot regard them as being specifically influential on the formation of Progressive Rock as a genre. Also, as you have since spotted, by being American they are not subject to this particular poll.

If you cannot see why some bands are called Proto on the PA and others are not then stop worrying about it. Rejoice in the ones we have listed and listen to their music for what it is - great music - if we went by a purely musicological (Record Fair) definition many of those bands wouldn't be on the site at all.



btw: I am not going to ask you to play "favourites" - there are two distinct definitions for two distinctly different purposes  - both are valid but only one applies here.
 
hihihi Dean. true all you said plus The Beatles were at the forefront of progressive moozik :) the white album for instance they did whatever they wanted. But Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club was the first and foremost unique progressive album at the time, no one even imagined that. xxxxx
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