The Ranting Room

OK. Can't restrain myself.

James wrote: In Britain though, there tends be a strong support for each party.  Most Conservative voters will likely never vote for the opposition, however bad their own leadership is.  It is not good form.  You are a Tory for life. The same applies for Labour (or New Labour) voters, who remember the Conservative years and do not want to return back to those times.  The problem is though, Conservatives are thicker-skinned, whilst unfortunately, Labour supporters are not showing themselves to be. So I disagree with your comments mostly.  Some people do vote like you do but in the case of Labour, they'd rather abstain from voting, than vote for the Conservatives.  The Conservatives vote for their own party, however appalling it is.

Disagree on the strong support. I think the number of people voting for a party because it's that party has been going down steadily since the 80s. This is somewhat evidenced by the dramatic swings in popular opinion both around '97 and today. Again, with Kinnock's Labour in '92, the Conservatives won despite opinion polls. If the support had been so firmly grounded, that wouldn't have happened.

Never seen either party's voters as especially thick-skinned or determined. With people my age, at least, I don't really see them being naturally inclined either way. I'm not very impressed with either party, but Brown's Labour have been responsible for a lot of blunders, and this has been picked up on viciously by the press. I know plenty of people, both of my generation and the previous one, who have voted Labour in our constituency because they like the MP, even if they prefer the Conservative party.

It's not so much this as that people have been prompted to dislike or be sick of labour by the press - democracy sounds neato but votes are largely decided by the most popular newspapers.

The popular press (and opinion polls) loved Brown back in September. Following the Conservative party conference, and their shock inheritance tax threshold goes to £1M announcement, that completely changed. This didn't happen because the press wanted it to. The conservatives have definitely sharpened up, and Labour's various bunglings have not been helping them at all.

The only people who are screwed over by the press are the Lib Dems.

In Britain though, there tends be a strong support for each party.  Most Conservative voters will likely never vote for the opposition, however bad their own leadership is.  It is not good form.  You are a Tory for life.

The same applies for Labour (or New Labour) voters, who remember the Conservative years and do not want to return back to those times.  The problem is though, Conservatives are thicker-skinned, whilst unfortunately, Labour supporters are not showing themselves to be.

So I disagree with your comments mostly.  Some people do vote like you do but in the case of Labour, they'd rather abstain from voting, than vote for the Conservatives.  The Conservatives vote for their own party, however appalling it is.

You have also missed my main point also.  Maybe I just did not word it correctly, oh well.  I am not repeating it.

So if I follow your thread, you find it astonishing that citizens of a democracy would base their decision of who to vote on who they don't like ... please remind you-selves (sic) that most parties are voted "out" of power, not in. In effect, once I'm tired of the current government, whether because it's run its' course, scandals, failures, ineptness etc; I will vote for another party. Usually in many democracies (no debate here as to whether that is a failing), that means voting for the other party where only two major parties exist. 

Exactly, Laplace, that's one of the points of my rant.

Although it seems there were staunch Labour votes who changed their stance too.  Most staunch voters of any government I've met are passionate about it.  They don't just vote a different way when they don't like something.

You've missed my point here, Rob.

My main point is that to me, it feels disrespectful to the family and memory of recently deceased M.P.'s (whatever party they are with) when all their hard work is disrespected by the voter who, in my eyes, is mostly voting for National issues and against the government, when they should be voting for Local ones.  Yes, National issues to affect things, I've said that already but they don't completely.  Housing, transport, hospitals and other stuff is local.  It just seems to me that they've voted tactically and to give Labour a bad name.  That's dishonest voting.

When everyone starts complaining about the inevitable Conservative Government that will win the General Election, I won't say "I told you so".

Re: your points -- no, it doesn't mean that person is any better or worse but from what I have witnessed they don't seem to be solely voting for policies and integrity; rather they are besmirching Gordon Brown's credibility (or lack of).  That's not what local elections are for.

I know why they're voting that way, Rob, I just don't like it.  I am sure Gordon and the rest are indeed worried but that's politics really.

Anyhow, it was supposed to be a rant and not a discussion, so let's nip this in the bud whilst we still can.

I have a rant, yes I do!

I'll try and make it not-political but I fear it just may... so hold onto your bile.

Yesterdays Crewe and Nantwich by-election was won by the Conservatives in a 12% majority.  This was formerly the seat of the late Gwynneth Dunwoody, a staunch and very respected Labour Politician.

How do they honour her sad demise?:  They vote in a Tory.

Now if a Tory passed away and Labour won, well, I wouldn't be arguing as much, of course but I still feel that it's a bit unhealthy honouring the memory of a long-serving M.P.

So why can they replace the deceased M.P. with another, say for a year and see how they go?

I wouldn't complain so much if it wasn't for the fact that:

a) from what I can tell, she was a great M.P. and there were few complaints
b) it was a LOCAL by-election not a National one, so why are you all voters voting for National issues? Sure, the 10pence tax problem does affect many but many National problems don't.  This annoys me so much!  Think of all the things your former M.P. did for you and then think "will this new guy actually be as good?  what about that labour person we didn't vote in, or maybe the Liberal Democrat?

I just feel that things have gone to peoples' heads.  There was a lady interviewed on Television from Crewe and well, her family has been staunch Labour voters all their lives and she voted Conservative.

Did she really think this through?  I'm a staunch Labour voter and I'd never vote for the Conservatives.  My parents suffered through the Thatcher years.  We don't need that time again.  Maybe others can forgiver the Conservatives but I cannot.  They haven't changed that much and they have no clear policies.

Phew.  That ended up a longer and more politically-minded rant than I envisaged so don't mind me if I've trodden on anyones toes.

I do not want a debate here, so if you are going to comment, I'd rather you commented on the initial thoughts.

PROGMAN wrote: My fear Rant: Phil Collins has spiraled out of control here on the forums, we must think of the children and end this evil deed

 I believe there is a need for a few exorcisms. The recent Phil is a prog legend and the other Phil thread just seem to be attempts to bait the Gabrielites out of their lair where the moderate "So Phil is not God, so what" sect got sick & tired of the bashing and came to state the then so far silent majority opinion that Phil was not responsible for all the so called evils that Genesis went on to pursue after Peter's (and Steve's) departure, such as, again supposedly, the conscious and malicious progression towards becoming a mainstream "pop" group; that Phil did not kill kittens, and that he was not responsible in any way for Dubya's two term as U.S. prez, nor for Justin Timberlake's ascent to pop top.
If PA was able to do away with the anti-Dream Theater attack thread (this was before my time here), PAers should be able to move on to new, unexplored topics. Such as why Klaatu & Ange are not listed in the top 100 of any genre. Somehow, some way, my vote is just being counted as one. So there is surely something wrong with those stats.

Jim Garten wrote: Syzygy wrote: Speaking as a Londoner (by adoption, exiled Liverpudlian) That explains the crime figures, then +++hides+++

I agree completely - reminds me of my very first post when I started this thread:

Jim Garten wrote: Car Indicators! All modern cars have these fitted as standard; they are NOT a luxury item or optional extra... USE THE BLOODY THINGS!

darqDean wrote: so, that's 6 'mistakes' caught on camera while cycling to work and four more on the way home, plus failing to stop at a pedestrian crossing, riding on the pavement and cycling through a park... how careful can he be?