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Topic ClosedBonuses for bankers

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Poll Question: Should any banker be awarded a years salary or more as a bonus?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2013 at 03:07
I'm certainly not going to defend the actions of those who have created the mess the Banks find themselves in. There is however a lot of hypocrisy, misinformation and misunderstanding when it comes to bankers and bonuses.

The term Bankers is misleading for a start. The vast majority of people who work for banks receive average or lower salaries. The people who serve you in your branch for example probably get paid less than you. Even the branch manager these days is little more than a glorified supervisor. If they get a bonus at all, it might be 3 or 4 % of their salary, and then only if they are deemed to have "performed" really well. I'm sure we all know people who work in banks who would laugh at the idea that they get enormous bonuses.

The people getting the big bonuses are the people in the top jobs and the traders in the global markets who effectively gamble with the banks' money. These people are not "bankers" in the traditional sense, they are commodity traders who might just as easily be dealing in petrol or gas or gold. These traders should be grouped together under a global title, not just conveniently called bankers. 

Looking at bonuses themselves, these are an effective incentive if they are used properly. They are used in all walks of life. No one ever questions a footballer getting a huge bung for winning the cup, do they? A bonus is the "at risk" part of your salary. A "Banker's" salary might be say £100,000. His employer's say to him, we will pay you £50,000 guaranteed. To get the other £50000 you have to make the company £1 million. If you don't, you don;t get the bonus. If he does, he appears to get a bonus of the equivalent of his salary. What if they had jsut paid him £100,000, would you be happier because it was less transparent?

Taking it further, the employer says to the"banker" for every £1 million profit you make for the company, we will give you £50,000. The guy makes a profit for the company of £10 million. His bonus is £500,000. He has added £10 million to the companies profits though. Does this show that incentives a work? Maybe.

And what happens to those profits? They go to the rich eh? well actually most of them go to you and me. The big investors in companies are pension funds, and other investors such as unit trusts, mortgage equity savings, etc. You and I demand that our pension funds make as much money as they can for us. The pension funds in turn put pressure on the companies they invest in to perform well and make big profits. The companies offer their staff bonuses to make big profits. Who is behind the banker's bonuses, why it's YOU!!

So a bit less of the hypocrisy. It's very easy to put your head in the sand and point the finger at others. A bit more honesty all round when it comes to our own greed would not go amiss.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2013 at 02:54
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.


Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup??
...ya didn't hear?Well OK I don't know about it's origins, that seems a little nutty


Nope - call me Mr head in the sand, but I genuinely did not know that
To be fair, the opium trade was legal back then, and it is still legally cultivated for medical pharmaceutical use today.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2013 at 02:26
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.


Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup??
...ya didn't hear?Well OK I don't know about it's origins, that seems a little nutty


Nope - call me Mr head in the sand, but I genuinely did not know that

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:19
I really don't care, I used to...oh when I was a pissed off progressive I wanted them all to burn. Especially after the recession.

In recent years, I've realized I really don't care about the wild world that is wall street. They can live in their small universe where they shuffle money around, make millionaires multi millionaires, live and die by the volatile stock market, even use their insane lending techniques....as long as it stays in their small universe.
Sadly, they have increasingly been moving into the economy at large and I fear now we all are becoming tethered to them and their games! That is what I don't like and seems like a dangerous place to be, especially when they don't pay for their stupidity.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:14
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.


Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup??


...ya didn't hear?
Well OK I don't know about it's origins, that seems a little nutty,  but yeah there was a huge non scandal about HSBC and links to drugs
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-hsbc-allowed-money-laundering-likely-funded-terror-drugs-889170
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/hsbc-money-laundering-colombian-drug-traffickers_n_2395167.html
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:12
The Last One Angry
“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four



"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 16:09
Funniest banker thing I ever saw, which is probably off topic a little bit, but never mind.

ITV, some years ago, were showing a League Cup Semi Final Mach live. Gary Newbon, one time sports reporter and latterly chief editor, was on the touch line for a live feed. Cue thousands of fans behind him, who started chanting::

"Gary Newbon.....he's a wa**ker, he's a wa**ker....."

The camera cut out, and the editor went back to the studio. Cue embarrassed silence, whereupon Jimmy Greaves turns to a distraught presenter (Tony Wilson), and says deadpan:

"I didn't realise Gary was a merchant banker, Tony!"

The adverts followed immediately as the entire studio collapsed laughing. 

Many a true word spoken in jest, eh?
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 15:46
BANKERS ARE OUR LORDS
WE SHALL BOW DOWN TO THEM AND LICK THEIR FEET
TOUCH THEM WHERE THEY WANT
AND FILL THEIR LIVES WITH PLEASURE
Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 15:32
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I think the reason why the government lets the banks off of the hook, cause they pretty much provide the government with a free ride... I mean look at the debt spending binges of countries like the US, the UK, Germany, Japan and China.
Yes but again, if they bought all that sovereign debt with money they have that would be quite legitimate, the problem is that they buy debt with money they do not actually have.
Last year, with most of the Spanish banks bordering bankrupcy which was strangling Spanish economy to death because companies could not receive financing from the banks (caused by a crazy real-state bubble which is not the purpose to discuss here), the EU Central Bank finally provided an injection of capital for 40 billion euro to re-capitalise the Spanish banking sector. What has happened? Since the interest of the Spanish debt is very high (around 6%) the banks are using the money they received to buy Spanish debt instead of pumping it into the real economy. The economy is not moving at all because the companies do not yet get any financing from the banks, a relatively safe and attractive 6% interest from the Spanish government is more interesting than lending money to a company which who knows if they will make profit or losses. The government is happy because they can show decreasing risk premium figures but it's all a masquerade quite removed from real economy. A lot of money pumped in but not to boost real economy, just to make 'the investors' quiet and safe.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 13:17
I think the reason why the government lets the banks off of the hook, cause they pretty much provide the government with a free ride... I mean look at the debt spending binges of countries like the US, the UK, Germany, Japan and China.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 13:11
Banking was a more or less respectable business in its origins, when people having money lent it in exchange for a return with interest (and vice-versa).
Nowadays it has become a business where they lend money they do not have, the whole economy is built on money or wealth which does not yet exist, only on the expectation (or rather, hope) that it will exist in the future. This is what makes the modern financial world an irresponsible risk to the rest of the society.


Edited by Gerinski - March 01 2013 at 00:23
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 12:21
HSBC mainstream articles about money laundering activities..

Guardian

Daily Mail

Al Jazeera

Daily Record

The Telegraph


I could go on...

Anyway, the dubious activities of HSBC are the tip of the iceberg. The dubious trading of institutions such as Goldman Sachs, Lehmen Brothers and J.P Morgan Chase in relation to the derivatives market would make your head spin. Just as government turned a blind eye to mafia operations for years, they have extended the same courtesy to these institutions, occasionally hanging some fall guy, like Madoff out to dry.

Edited by Blacksword - February 28 2013 at 12:29
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 10:17
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hongkong_and_Shanghai_Banking_CorporationRead


Many thanks - good old Wiki, eh?


It's not even a secret that HSBC launders money for drug cartels, gangs and terrorists, so why be surprised at the history?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:42
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hongkong_and_Shanghai_Banking_CorporationRead


Many thanks - good old Wiki, eh?

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:35
Bankers need and deserve our full support. They have rough lives of privation and hunger yet they manage to put greed aside in benefit of all their charitable work for the masses. How horrible you people are talking about these seraphims on Earth without your full respect.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:01
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I would like you to all take a moment to spare a thought for the investment banking industry and all the good work it does, with it's huge derivtive bubbles, sub prime mortgage criminal Ponzi schemes and other such products that no one really understands. Remind yourself that despite the fact that they have effectively bankrupted the western world, and subsequently, like a cancer sucked financial nourishment from their respective governmental hosts, leaving a trail of austerity and political instability in their wake, they too are human and to take away their rewards for failure and corruption is a clear breach of their human rights.


I really appreciate where you're coming from Andy - you've listed a lot of their good works, but in addition to all that, they still find time to assist the reconstruction of the western banking system by fixing the LIBOR rates & mis-selling products in order that they're guaranteed a future drain on their resources by way of hundreds of millions in compensation.

[edit]

BTW - Alan; if you read this - none of this is aimed at you.


I don't think they plan on fixing the Western banking system anytime soon. Too much profits to be made... Only once most of the people start waking up, this can be fixed...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:58
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I would like you to all take a moment to spare a thought for the investment banking industry and all the good work it does, with it's huge derivtive bubbles, sub prime mortgage criminal Ponzi schemes and other such products that no one really understands. Remind yourself that despite the fact that they have effectively bankrupted the western world, and subsequently, like a cancer sucked financial nourishment from their respective governmental hosts, leaving a trail of austerity and political instability in their wake, they too are human and to take away their rewards for failure and corruption is a clear breach of their human rights.


I really appreciate where you're coming from Andy - you've listed a lot of their good works, but in addition to all that, they still find time to assist the reconstruction of the western banking system by fixing the LIBOR rates & mis-selling products in order that they're guaranteed a future drain on their resources by way of hundreds of millions in compensation.

[edit]

BTW - Alan; if you read this - none of this is aimed at you.

Thanks Jim, I entirely agree anyway.

btw - I'm not a banker, I'm an IT technician who happens to work for a Bank.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:56
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.


Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup??


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hongkong_and_Shanghai_Banking_Corporation

Read.

And it also supplies state sponsors of terrorism with money laundering services.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:46
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.


Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup??

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:40
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I would like you to all take a moment to spare a thought for the investment banking industry and all the good work it does, with it's huge derivtive bubbles, sub prime mortgage criminal Ponzi schemes and other such products that no one really understands. Remind yourself that despite the fact that they have effectively bankrupted the western world, and subsequently, like a cancer sucked financial nourishment from their respective governmental hosts, leaving a trail of austerity and political instability in their wake, they too are human and to take away their rewards for failure and corruption is a clear breach of their human rights.


I really appreciate where you're coming from Andy - you've listed a lot of their good works, but in addition to all that, they still find time to assist the reconstruction of the western banking system by fixing the LIBOR rates & mis-selling products in order that they're guaranteed a future drain on their resources by way of hundreds of millions in compensation.

[edit]

BTW - Alan; if you read this - none of this is aimed at you.


A lot of what they do is actually criminal in real terms. Fixing LIBOR rates is fraud. Sometimes you just have to call these things out for what they actually are and not what the BBC or our politicans like to spin them as. Then of course there's HSBC laundering money for Mexican drug cartels. All on record. All admitted. The media furore should be deafening - and ongoing - and heads should be rolling left right and centre, but no. A few fines here and there. A bit of a ticking off and a bit of an apology now and then. A few stern words about 'what we can learn' etc etc,and round it all goes.

What do you call an organisation that operates above and beyond the law with impunity (unless it's politically expedient to hang some hapless individual out to dry)? You call it 'the establishment'


I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business.
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