I think Echolyn should be changed to Eclectic Prog

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   Variation is style from album to album is not necessarily eclectic. If that were true then practically every band who released more than one album or who had been around for several years would end up in Eclectic, and that includes Genesis, Yes, ELP, Floyd, Tull and even Tangerine Dream.

If there is any variation in style then the band should be found where their most popular albums would place them and where most listeners would expect them to be. On that basis Symphonic is most appropriate for Echolyn.

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Dean Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575	Posted: January 12 2013 at 05:36
	Variation is style from album to album is not necessarily eclectic. If that were true then practically every band who released more than one album or who had been around for several years would end up in Eclectic, and that includes Genesis, Yes, ELP, Floyd, Tull and even Tangerine Dream. If there is any variation in style then the band should be found where their most popular albums would place them and where most listeners would expect them to be. On that basis Symphonic is most appropriate for Echolyn.
	What?

Gerinski Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154	Posted: January 12 2013 at 02:58
	PA system tags the band, not their albums, and therefore in principle it tags the band according to their debut or very first albums. Later changes in style are not reflected in the band tagging, otherwise we could argue that Genesis should be in Crossover or so many other cases. Only for obscure bands added only after a significant discography can their whole history be evaluated for their initial tagging. From this perspective Symph is OK for me.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 23:35
	Well I just stated my opinion. It's up to the higher ups now. I remember having an argument a long time ago with a woman(she probably wasn't super knowledgable about prog or a hardcore fan though)about whether Yes are symphonic or not. She almost angrily insisted that Yes are not symphonic. In no way could I ever convince her that Yes are symphonic. We disagreed. told her I thought Yes are symphonic. If I didn't say it I should have told her that the main thing is it didn't matter what we thought but that Yes are generally considered symphonic prog. That's the bottom line. Yes aren't as symphonic as Genesis imo or as much as certain neo prog bands(IQ for example)but still deserve the symphonic tag. For me a band like Yes just barely fit symphonic but they do qualify. I would say that Echolyn are even less(quite a bit less imo)of a symphonic band than Yes. Having spoken to the members of Echolyn on several occasions(not to mention interviewing them)I can tell you with little hesitation that's it's extremely unlikely they think of themselves as symph prog. In fact I'm pretty sure they don't want to be put in any particular box. Their music imo has more of the qualities of an eclectic band, who try many different styles and sounds, rather than what your typical symphonic band does. Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 11 2013 at 23:40

Man With Hat Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166183	Posted: January 11 2013 at 22:30
	I'm fine with them in symphonic. Not that I decided these things of course.
	Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.

Ambient Hurricanes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:52
	Wow! Two "does this band belong in eclectic" threads this week! I like Echolyn, and although I'm not as familiar with their music as some others, it seems to me that eclectic would be a good tag for them. They don't seem as much eclectic, though, as just having a really unique and quirky take on prog that's completely their own. That being said, I don't think they're a misfit in symphonic or anything. If anything, I like having them there because it adds more variety to the genre.
	I love dogs, I've always loved dogs

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:43
	Feel free to move it Atavachron. Now I know for next time. Thanks.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:42
	No, you just like to argue. If you don't think Echolyn are eclectic then I have to say that you don't know what eclectic means.

Atavachron Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65513	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:42
	this should probably be in Help Improve the Site

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:39
	I'm not a huge fan anyway, i would get someone like Epignosis to respond and post his opinion. It seems i haven't listened enough. Edited by Horizons - January 11 2013 at 21:39
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:37
	Here's the break down: first album: a few symph songs and a couple with some symph moments. Second album: some symphonic songs and some symph qualities here and there. As the world: Very complex song oriented prog with a strong GG influence. No real symph qualities here except maybe just a little bit here and there. Cowboy poems free: no strong symph here either but instead a more modern song oriented prog with some mild alternative sounding songs. Over all not symphonic. Mei: a chamber orchestra is on here but it's more classical window dressing than full on symph and the classical element is mostly used as backing. The end is beautiful: hard edged modern rock/prog. No strong symph qualities here either. The new self titled. Some symph qualities but not enough for the label. The verdict? NOT A SYMPH PROG BAND. This is not a negative anti symph statement. I love Echolyn and I love symph prog but they aren't symph prog. Sorry to those who think it's important for them to have that label but I'm just telling it as it is. They are mislabeled plain and simple.

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:32
	I've heard their new one multiple times as well as Suffocating and The End is Beautiful. Their style, while retaining that edge they sometimes show, is still symphonic - just because they aren't constantly sounding like a glossy, keyboard-soaked band doesn't make them eclectic. Edited by Horizons - January 11 2013 at 21:37
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:30
	You have heard all of their albums more than once? I would say anyone who labels them as symphonic prog does not know what symphonic prog is. Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 11 2013 at 21:31

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:29
	Having listened to their albums i'm sure.
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:27
	No way. Did you even read what I just wrote? Since you replied so fast I seriously doubt it. I really think they should be eclectic prog. Lot's of eclectic prog bands have symphonic elements like Echolyn but over all symphonic is NOT an appropriate tag for them. Even crossover prog would be more appropriate for them than symphonic prog. Edited by Prog_Traveller - January 11 2013 at 21:29

Horizons Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:25
	I think they are were they belong. Very sure.
	Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Prog_Traveller Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: May 29 2005 Location: Bucks county PA Status: Offline Points: 1474	Posted: January 11 2013 at 21:25
	Just my opinion here of course but I don't think Echolyn should be labelled as symphonic prog. If they are symphonic, and I admit they do have those elements, they are certainly not typical symphonic prog(ie no mellotron). Some of their albums like "mei" have strong symphonic qualities but other than their first two albums and "mei" I really strongly feel that the symphonic tag is inappropriate for Echolyn. They have done some stuff that is hard edged, almost alternative sounding etc. Symphonic was never the major focus of their sound but instead it was the diversity and the songwriting. The band were very eclectic and most of their albums are different from eachother. I am very familiar with this band's body of work and I strongly suggest changing their tag to "eclectic prog" instead of "symphonic prog." Thanks for your consideration.