Prog Snobbery

menawati wrote: Maybe 'challenging' was the wrong word for me to use. I meant more interesting to listen to, more likely to induce some emotion in me, more likely to provide something that's maybe new.

It gets better...interesting is even more subjective than challenging.  At least challenging implies complexity and what is more or less complex is more objective. 

menawati wrote: As far as someone looking down on me I have no problem with that. Some of the best discoveries I've made in music have been from music snobs looking down on me, scoffing and telling me to listen to X, Y and Z.

Well, to close the loop, even if you do not have a problem with a music snob looking down on you, it doesn't preclude somebody from disliking your perceived snobbish behaviour. 

thellama73 wrote: progbethyname wrote: HolyMoly wrote: We Metal Machine Music fans gotta stick together. When you say METAL MACHINE do you mean Industrail sounding metal like FEAR FACTORYor something? Not sure It's a double album of nothing but horrible noise by Lou Reed, made to get out of a record contract. It's great.

I happen to like listening to horrible noise :(

Ambient Hurricanes wrote:   You can have an opinion that one band or album or song is objectively better than another without considering yourself the ultimate arbitrator of taste, just as you can have a political opinion without considering yourself the ultimate authority on political science.

That however would contradict the very notion of objectivity, which implies a statement that has basis in facts.  It also implies impartiality, which is extremely difficult in music given that we are usually talking about the music we like.   What one can be objective about is specific aspects of music taken in isolation...is one musician more technically accomplished than another....this can be evaluated without necessarily implying that makes the music of the former better than the latter.  

Music is not the sum total of its characteristics; it is a medium of expression.  Every composition is like a living, breathing entity that presents, or hopes to present, the listener with an experience that is distinct.   Music is born out of a composer's thoughts and goals and often takes shape spontaneously.  It is difficult to compare unless both compositions can be reasonably assumed to serve the same need (which more or less rules out comparing compositions of different artists). 

I don't think it is snobbish to say one genre is better than the other as long as we recognize that it is a subjective statement that reflects our experiences in music.  Therefore, it does not make the person who disagrees with such a statement wrong either.

I think it's ridiculous that someone should be called a snob for trying to make any sort of objective judgement about music.  You can have an opinion that one band or album or song is objectively better than another without considering yourself the ultimate arbitrator of taste, just as you can have a political opinion without considering yourself the ultimate authority on political science.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and some are more true than others.  You're not a snob if you think prog music is generally better than pop, nor are you a snob if you think that pop is generally better than prog.  It's when people make sweeping generalizations, confine themselves to a single genre, ridicule others for their tastes, or refuse to acknowledge positive aspects of (in their opinion) subpar music that snobbery comes into play. 

So...

Progressive rock is generally artistically superior to pop music because it bypasses crass commercialism, incorporates more interesting melodies, harmonies, and rhythms, and appeals to the deeper emotions of the heart rather than mere physical desires.  (legitimate opinion)

All prog is amazing and all pop music sucks because it's simple and stupid and mass produced and all of the songs are about sex and drugs (snobbery)

The Shaggs are easy listening compared to Metal Machine Music.

Inverted snobbery is just as bad.ie Simple is better or the only good musicians are bad musicians.

presdoug wrote:           And then there is the old "classical music listeners are snobs", which is a worn out cliche, and ridiculous, really

If you happen to have discerning tastes, so be it!
         Accusations of music snobbery, prog or otherwise, are usually leveled at people who have delved into music with a lot of depth, and leveled by people that haven't.
              As has been pointed out, there is no law about what you can be into or not, in music.

          And then there is the old "classical music listeners are snobs", which is a worn out cliche, and ridiculous, really

We Metal Machine Music fans gotta stick together.

HarbouringTheSoul wrote: progbethyname wrote: Also FYI the pop world is a joke. It's not music it's an entertainment industry. Nothing more! And this in a thread called "prog snobbery"...

Yup. My snobbery just came out in full force there! Whoops. I admit I feel so strongly by how great prog is in general, so sometimes when I hear the word 'POP' I get scared. . No no just kidding. There is a few pop elements that I like in music or more commercially sounding sound. Examples would be Genesis's DUKE and the Cure's DISENTEGRATION. Awesome stuff indeed.