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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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 Posted: April 21 2011 at 22:27 |
 dr prog wrote:
There's a touch of filler in the title song I think. I think Relayer has more filler though. Gates doesn't need to be 20 minutes long. I only rate the first 5 or 6 minutes highly. Nothing beats composition. Noises and ballads show lack of ideas imo |
Touch, indeed! Whatever. And that section after the first five minutes is carefully composed music, unless you also regard Schoenberg or Stockhausen as noise and only anything blues based with happy chords as music. Seriously though, TAAB loses the plot from minutes 20 to 30 and you have more of an issue with a 'touch of filler' in CTTE? You are evidently quite biased. I like both bands, mind, so I am just trying to understand whether you have any point.
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dr prog
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Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: April 21 2011 at 19:52 |
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
well the thing i love about prog is the composition. I don't really care about experimenting or songs lasting 20 minutes with 5 minutes of filler. |
Where are five minutes of filler in Close to The Edge (song)? It's one of the tightest prog epics around and a good deal tighter than Supper's Ready, TAAB or APP.
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There's a touch of filler in the title song I think. I think Relayer has more filler though. Gates doesn't need to be 20 minutes long. I only rate the first 5 or 6 minutes highly. Nothing beats composition. Noises and ballads show lack of ideas imo
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 21:08 |
rogerthat wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
well the thing i love about prog is the composition. I don't really care about experimenting or songs lasting 20 minutes with 5 minutes of filler. |
Where are five minutes of filler in Close to The Edge (song)? It's one of the tightest prog epics around and a good deal tighter than Supper's Ready, TAAB or APP.
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As much as I prefer TAAB and APP to Close to the Edge, it's hard to disagree with this. All three of the other songs you mentioned undeniably have filler parts, with the greatest culprit being TAAB, which is part of the reason why I've recently turned away from it in recent years in favor of other tull albums. Baker St. Muse is pretty solid from beginning to end though.
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 21:02 |
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Boo Genesis. Yay Jethro Tull.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 20:53 |
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
well the thing i love about prog is the composition. I don't really care about experimenting or songs lasting 20 minutes with 5 minutes of filler. |
Where are five minutes of filler in Close to The Edge (song)? It's one of the tightest prog epics around and a good deal tighter than Supper's Ready, TAAB or APP.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 20:52 |
mr.cub wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
There's nothing particularly defensible about that statement, if he made it. If Yes and ELP were making a good idea last a week, what were JT doing but rejigging Aqualung for each 'new' album for fans who couldn't have enough of the same sound? Now, that's an obvious exaggeration, but intended as a rebuttal to someone who actually thinks that is a justifiable description of prog.
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Don't really think Tull was rehashing Aqualung with their subsequent releases, each album from the seventies has its own flavor. Personally go with Tull over Genesis; a very diverse band and they put out a string of fantastic albums
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The point is, if Tull did, then so did Yes, ELP and Genesis. If people don't think the individual albums of those bands lacked, duh, individuality, that is most likely down to having not listened enough to them. I don't see how BSS is in any way a rehash of Tarkus or TFTO a rehash of CTTE, for instance and my post was evidently addressed to that point.
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jean-marie
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Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 16:34 |
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 16:16 |
Snow Dog wrote:
jean-marie wrote:
I love both , all these polls are a bit tiring, think it's better making poll between albums from one band  |
Genesis vs Mozart next. |
How about Genesis vs Mozart vs W.C. Handy vs Bertolt Brecht? Just to stir things up?
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 16:09 |
jean-marie wrote:
I love both , all these polls are a bit tiring, think it's better making poll between albums from one band |
Genesis vs Mozart next.
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jean-marie
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Joined: July 27 2010
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Posted: April 20 2011 at 15:55 |
I love both , all these polls are a bit tiring, think it's better making poll between albums from one band
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Manuel
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Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 13481
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Posted: April 19 2011 at 22:41 |
mr.cub wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
There's nothing particularly defensible about that statement, if he made it. If Yes and ELP were making a good idea last a week, what were JT doing but rejigging Aqualung for each 'new' album for fans who couldn't have enough of the same sound? Now, that's an obvious exaggeration, but intended as a rebuttal to someone who actually thinks that is a justifiable description of prog.
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Don't really think Tull was rehashing Aqualung with their subsequent releases, each album from the seventies has its own flavor. Personally go with Tull over Genesis; a very diverse band and they put out a string of fantastic albums
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I agree with that. Tull has always found a way to put very different music in their albums, somehow preserving the authentic Tull sound. Even though they are classified as folk rock in this forum, their music is more eclectic and full of many different influences.
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
Status: Offline
Points: 971
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Posted: April 19 2011 at 22:24 |
rogerthat wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
There's nothing particularly defensible about that statement, if he made it. If Yes and ELP were making a good idea last a week, what were JT doing but rejigging Aqualung for each 'new' album for fans who couldn't have enough of the same sound? Now, that's an obvious exaggeration, but intended as a rebuttal to someone who actually thinks that is a justifiable description of prog.
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Don't really think Tull was rehashing Aqualung with their subsequent releases, each album from the seventies has its own flavor. Personally go with Tull over Genesis; a very diverse band and they put out a string of fantastic albums
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
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Posted: April 19 2011 at 22:07 |
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
well the thing i love about prog is the composition. I don't really care about experimenting or songs lasting 20 minutes with 5 minutes of filler.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: April 19 2011 at 20:55 |
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with). |
There's nothing particularly defensible about that statement, if he made it. If Yes and ELP were making a good idea last a week, what were JT doing but rejigging Aqualung for each 'new' album for fans who couldn't have enough of the same sound? Now, that's an obvious exaggeration, but intended as a rebuttal to someone who actually thinks that is a justifiable description of prog.
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Posted: April 19 2011 at 14:36 |
All Genesis, all the time.
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Heathcliffe
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Location: Melbourne
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Posted: April 18 2011 at 17:35 |
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My 2 fave bands.
Tull will always get my vote though.
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let prog reign
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Joined: December 11 2010
Location: South Carolina
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Posted: April 18 2011 at 12:53 |
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Genesis, only by a lot
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Once upon a time there was some writing on the wall we all ignored, until the time that there was war and feasts of famine at our door
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colorofmoney91
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Location: Biosphere
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Posted: April 18 2011 at 09:34 |
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I'm going for Tull. Listening to a whole Genesis album is grating to me.
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bucka001
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Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
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Posted: April 18 2011 at 09:31 |
dr prog wrote:
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome |
If Ian Anderson is kind of right, as you say, then maybe music fans who aren't into prog don't necessarily have "simple/dumb taste in music" and probably wouldn't "wake up to how good prog is after enough listening." Especially not if prog's about "spaghetti noodlers" and ridiculous theatrics. Reading Anderson's quote, one gets the feeling that the fans who turned away from prog and aren't interested may be more clued-in than you're giving them credit for. On the other hand, maybe you're right about people getting into prog if they'd only give it enough listening... but then Anderson's statement would have to be taken with a grain of salt (and probably disagreed with).
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jc
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2516
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Posted: April 16 2011 at 18:17 |
bucka001 wrote:
dr prog wrote:
I reckon most people would get into prog after enough listening but most people have pretty simple/dumb taste in music. But in the end they would wake up to how good prog is after enough listening. |
Actually, Ian Anderson might disagree with you about prog (and he certainly doesn't seem to respect Gabriel-era Genesis).
Anderson from the new Classic Rock Presents Prog: "Prog became a bit of a joke, really. Perhaps the archetpal prog rock bands were the spaghetti noodlers like Yes and ELP, who could take a good idea and make it last for days! Some of it was silly, when you think about Peter Gabriel dressed a giant sunflower. It was ridiculous." |
He's kind of right. Tull are the perfect blend of rock,folk, classical and jazz. When they did a long song they made sure the whole song was full of strong changing melodies. They didn't put in 5 minutes of sound effects to fill in space. ELP were finished after Trilogy imo. When I see pictures of Gabriel with his head shaved down the middle I think showpony/rebel which doesn't go down as cool at all. His voice on the Lamb is pretty annoying and his outfits were pretty embarrasing lol. Tulls remasters from 1970-74 and 1977-80 are awesome
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Jethro Tull vs. Genesis
