Do the Beatles get too much credit.. |
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TheLionOfPrague
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 08 2011 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1063 |
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Yeah, they are the best bands of the '60s but there were tons of artists doing things that were very innovative and revolutionary like Mothers of Invention, Bob Dylan, The Kinks, the Stones, The Doors, The Who, Simon & Garfunkel, etc. Some people act as if they invented the wheel.
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I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17798 |
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Hi, Agreeing to Disagree is the same thing as stating that it does not matter. It's like it is a stupid discussion in the first place and meaningless in the shaping and continuation of all things. While you have the right to say that, in the end, it defines the artist from the musician ... and the truth behind the work ... or why it is meaningful or not. For those who "made it" this is not a value-less thing ... and you can not deny them their work. But a fan discussion deciding that the artist has no value and that what they said, or sang, was googgaabaloo ... that's another story. I can see how we're all around the SAME TREE, but we see different things, but stating that we can agree to disagree to the same "tree" is insane ... we might as well go try to decipher the bad translations of ancient works ... and give the public a pulp version of it all! The true artist is not there to agree and disagree the merits of their work! Only fans bring that up according to their whims!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17875 |
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It's not about being right or wrong, that really does not exist when discussing the arts.....Rather "agree to disagree", then move on.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17798 |
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Hi, Agreed ... but it adds a touch of ... leave it be ... or shall we say Let It Be ... and the usual appearance that some comments are "real" ... and for me, and my experience, they aren't, just as they were not for many other folks. I'm not in it to stamp out speech, and its many forms, but ... yeah ... there are times when ... you just wanna scream! The Beatles are not an inspiration for me as much as other artistic things at the time in theatre and film, but they certainly are better known than all the others. I still consider Spike Milligan and Chuck Jones my two most valuable "heroes" as they really changed the landscape of their art ... one with sound effects and writing, and the other with cartoons and incredible music invented that almost no one is capable of listening to it ... some of that "cartoon" music, makes a lot of rock music look really bad and poor all around. The Beatles did not exactly change things, but they became the marker and poster boys for most of it real quick.
Edited by moshkito - September 06 2024 at 07:10 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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MikeEnRegalia
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You should just ignore random users who say things you do not agree with. Point out how they are wrong and move on
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28466 |
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Well I still think that 1967 -1977 is the most important era of music in my lifetime. You could name any famous musician from that era and it's just mind boggling how much talent was about in general. After 1977 it became about corporate interests and not about 'the art'. IMO. The Beatles understood what was needed. It's not about how good they were or whether jazz musicians were better. I seriously don't care about that. The Beatles wrote Penny Lane, Strawberry Fields and Eleanor Rigby. Great songs, great hooks and clever production. They were played on the radio and so I got to hear a trumpet solo for the first time. BTW The idea that other musicians didn't respect them is complete and total bunkum.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17798 |
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Hi,
I kinda wish this thread was locked. Fans, today, seem to have not a whole lot of appreciation for music history and its placement. It's hard for me, to think that Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky and the Beatles ... were not valuable and important in the grand scheme and history of things ... although The Beatles will probably fit better in the improvement of radio materials from bubble gum crap to music that was more intelligent and creative, something that is a horribly difficult study for most folks in terms of radio play and the lack of it ... but we know that after the Great American Radio Rape, entering the 80's, that radio stopped being an important reason for many bands to make it ... for lack of a better word for it. The Beatles, and The Rolling Stones, probably fit better as a discussion of how it all became so much bigger than the AM radio band and its very commercial atmosphere. But seeing folks here, make comments that deny the history of it all is similar to the worst in the 20th Century for me ... reality has a way to be forgotten and left behind and a lot of the younger folks don't seem to believe, or care, when the history books mention it. The saying is that things will keep repeating themselves if we don't learn from them ... and it is hard for me to not see that happening here ... you might not like the Beatles, but disrespecting them is not exactly the right thing to do, just like you do not exactly do that to the huge composers from the last 500 years.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17875 |
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I could care less about the Fab Four, and of course I answered Yes. It's a discussion that can go on forever, although I am finding more and more that people don't talk about them much. The 60's was a million years ago and the fanatics are dying off. The music does not seem to have any relevance within todays marketing world, meaning look at what the Queen catalog just sold for, and why. The catalog was not purchased for Sony to be able to reissue box sets or special edition packages for $100, not even close. It was purchased for its marketing power in movies, commercials hell any sports media/team that plays "We Are The Champions" Sony will get money for the rest of eternity. What Scaruffi wrote is more about the status of pop/rock music today, yes about the Beatles, but about pop/rock in general and how the public perceives "the best". The Grammy's are 100% about sales and little to no musical talent recognized, its a shame........AI content is getting a Grammy award.
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Octopus II
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 21 2023 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11011 |
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No
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20314 |
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Thx
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65338 |
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^ Well, no I don't think so. The Beatles were influenced by everyone from 1930s American Pop to Sinatra to the Everly Brothers to Dylan. Rush were a hard rock/heavy blues band before their sci-fi prog period.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 18490 |
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Imo, that would describe Rush also (but with different influences of course).
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65338 |
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That's absurd-- Most of their songs were written by Mrs. Jean Clapsaddle of Tacoma, Washington. I thought everyone knew that. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36334 |
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\You have to have forum moderator privileges for that. If one wants a topic to be unlocked, please PM myself or Ian (Nogbadthebad). Or whoever is an active admin at the time. ------------------------------------------------- Just to restate for all, this was not locked since it was not inactive long enough, and those automatic lock times have not been consistent, by the way, depending on what M@x has done to the forum and forum updates. Threads with the last response from early May 2018 (from memory) are locked. This topic's last response was in was 2020. Paul is correct. |
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chopper
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He's entitled to his opinion. Yes, they weren't the greatest musicians, after all they were pretty much self-taught and learned the rest from George Martin. They're still the most influential, regardless of what he thinks. I've had some interesting "discussions" with people on Twitter about The Beatles - one who insists Paul died and was replaced by Billy Shears and one who thinks they were manufactured by "Tavistock", whatever that is.
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Offline Points: 41245 |
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This thread has only been inactive for four years previously, so I presume that's why it was still open.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20314 |
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Tempting to say "a little too much", but in general, no, they were essential.
My question is how to reactivate a closed thread? As a special collab, I can't (or at least don't know how to) |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65338 |
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^ The Beach Boys behind the curve? They were so far ahead of the curve and sophisticated no one noticed. But they were overproduced, too richly vocal-oriented, and of course American...the progressive kiss of death.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28466 |
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I voted 'No' but only in terms of sparking the British progressive rock scene. Famously Robert Fripp heard a Day In The Life and it changed his whole outlook and direction in music. It all seems to happen when Rubber Soul is recorded and establishes firmly the idea that 'popular music' can be about artistic expression. Before then it was mainly classical music and jazz that had those virtues. The Beach Boys were always behind the curve and Zappa was perhaps trying to cross over from some sort of free jazz style. In general the sixties brought forward a whole host of interesting and diverse music acts, far too many to mention but The Kinks, The Who and The Moody Blues were also innovative. Even The Rolling Stones (bless their cotton little woolies) were important and got the memo. It was a fun time but The Beatles still stood head and shoulders above the rest imo.
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Atavachron
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The truth is the Beatles were as much brilliant imitators as they were innovators. Many of their songs were variations of styles, largely American styles, and reflect the music they were hearing as kids on U.S. broadcasts, Armed Forces, Swing & Jazz, Pop, etc.
But that's fair, and that's what most songwriters do-- They imitate and innovate at the same time. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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