Phil Collins and here's why. . . . . |
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BroskyGene
Forum Newbie Joined: February 18 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 23:30 | |
So, basically when the admin team agreed that the solo work of ANY artist whose band was listed in a prog category could be added, they decided to shun Phil out for his non-proggy solo work and created a loophole now known as the sole exception to the policy, for the sole purpose of keeping him out of the archive on the site.
Right, well let's take a look at another prog group. YES. We all know of their work in the 70's. Their work in the 80's was far different than the decade before mentioned, and thus Trevor Rabin, who seems to take much of the grunt for their change in direction, is not listed in any prog category. And for good reason. He had no place in the prog years of YES. He wasn't there for TFTO, Relayer, Close To The Edge, etc. Regardless of what peoples opinions of 80's YES were, and still are, Trevor Rabin, as before mentioned, didn't have a place in 70's YES. He is a more suitable "exception to the rule".
Phil Collins is not a Trevor Rabin.
The man was there for Foxtrot. He was there for Nursery Cryme. He was there for Selling England. He was there for The Lamb. Songs like "The Musical Box", "Watcher Of The Skies", "Supper's Ready" and "In The Cage" do not exist without the wrongful exception to the rule, Mr. Phil Collins. And that shouldn't be ignored.
Yea, Sussudio, You'll Be In My Heart, & Two Hearts are far from Prog. The same can be said for Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer, Shock The Monkey, and Big Time. If the album that holds "Games Without Frontiers" or "Intruder" can be recognized, then so should the album that holds "In The Air Tonight" or "The Roof Is Leaking".
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Chris S
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 15:56 | |
^
Such a pity. I personally think Max and the Admin team are way wrong on this one but I do enjoy fresh debates on the matter.
For Absent Friends
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:34 | |
Several years ago, the (then) admin team and M@x agreed that the solo work of any artist whose band is listed in a prog category could be added to prog related (or a full prog category of course if justified). When we agree that policy, Collins was held up as one of the very rare examples of where his solo discography was generally recognised as being far removed from prog. He was therefore quoted as the sole exception to the policy. This was done in a sort of light-hearted way at the time, intended more than anything else to recognise the controversy such an addition would cause.
While I don't speak for the rest of the admin team, I don't think anything he has released since (has he released anything recently?) would change that view, so his chances of being admitted as prog related are, I would think, doubtful at best.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66266 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:30 | |
The problem is that time is lost to adding new bands because of the constant, non-stop debates over the prog-related artists that keep re-occurring over and over and over and over and over again.
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 4625 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:24 | |
What's this huge obsession with adding PR artists??? There are plenty of full-fledged prog bands out there that are still not included on this site. I saw PR oughta be closed for new additions until we run out of real prog bands to add.
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:17 | |
Or, if you like, The Let All Hell Break Loose category!
Oh, btw, Scott, I'm deep into reviewing that Sylvan album you like so much... |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66266 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:13 | |
Or "Fine, You Win, They Are Here".
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66266 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:10 | |
To save room on the home page that genre can be called Bands Added To Save Bandwith.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66266 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:08 | |
I think that a new genre needs to be added to PA titled Bands Added Just To Stop The Endless Debates That Go On and On and On and On and Re-rear Their Ugly Heads Every Six Months or So. This category would include Phil Collins, Boston, Toto, Judas Priest, Yngwie Malmsteen, Stratovarius, and every other band that we know who they are that fit this category.
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:05 | |
Well, I don't believe that M@x has done so out of hatred for Phil Collins, but rather because - as we say in Italian - he 'knows his chickens', and realizes the Admin Team would bear the brunt of the addition. I still have nightmares about the Iron Maiden addition, by the way. |
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66266 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:03 | |
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Raff
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24429 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:59 | |
While I've never agreed about the hatred heaped upon Phil Collins (as I said before, people should avoid wasting energies on stuff like that), I am not really sure adding him would be a good idea. For one, we should start considering the addition of other famous musicians that were once members of prog bands (one name for all: Lemmy), and then, personally, I don't find a whole lot of prog-relatedness in his music, even in Face Value (which I used to own on vinyl, so I'm not biased against it). However, I am well aware that prog-relatedness is very much a matter of point of view, and for some Face Value can be much more prog-related than, say, the album I have in my avatar.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, would be the violent reactions from part of the membership, which would probably result in abuse being heaped upon the Admins (who are in charge of PR) and the person responsible for the addition. Unfortunately, there are people here who just seem unable to remember that we are not dealing with politics or religion here, but with music - something that should unite us, not divide us. |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13634 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:51 | |
This one just runs and runs
I love the debut, Face Value - an incredible emotional statement following the breakup of his first marriage. The second is a good pop album, and the rest I really don't care much for without actively disliking them. I love Collins era Genesis, and I think the man is a great talent, decent bloke, who deserves our admiration rather than approbium. However, solo stuff prog or prog related? If yes, then all will be rushing out to get the dictionary definitions revised |
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Chris S
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 04:24 | |
Edited by Chris S - February 19 2010 at 04:24 |
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 04:11 | |
Want to take him into Crossover for an eval? ;-) |
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 02 2008 Location: Going Bananas Status: Offline Points: 24310 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 03:22 | |
Phil's solo work, good or not, is a far remove from prog: even Peter Gabriel's solo work is far more progressive. In my humble opinion, his presence in at least three bands which are included here (Flaming Youth, Genesis and Brand X) does not justify an inclusion of his solo albums. |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: February 19 2010 at 02:48 | |
Let's make sure this debate focuses on the music alone. No personal attacks on the artist please.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 18 2010 at 22:58 | |
...and again.....I hope that this argument though gets raised and raised again ad infinitum until Collin's is recognised here for Face Value alone.
One word.......Credibility
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 07 2008 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7826 |
Posted: February 18 2010 at 21:51 | |
Here we go again....
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UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2009 Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 5148 |
Posted: February 18 2010 at 21:33 | |
That is a very accurate picture. And to respond to answer your question: NO!
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