Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Phil Collins and here's why. . . . .
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedPhil Collins and here's why. . . . .

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
BroskyGene View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: February 18 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 23:30
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

 
Several years ago, the (then) admin team and M@x agreed that the solo work of any artist whose band is listed in a prog category could be added to prog related (or a full prog category of course if justified). When we agree that policy, Collins was held up as one of the very rare examples of where his solo discography was generally recognised as being far removed from prog. He was therefore quoted as the sole exception to the policy. This was done in a sort of light-hearted way at the time, intended more than anything else to recognise the controversy such an addition would cause.
 
 
 
So, basically when the admin team agreed that the solo work of ANY artist whose band was listed in a prog category could be added, they decided to shun Phil out for his non-proggy solo work and created a loophole now known as the sole exception to the policy, for the sole purpose of keeping him out of the archive on the site.  
 
Right, well let's take a look at another prog group. YES. We all know of their work in the 70's. Their work in the 80's was far different than the decade before mentioned, and thus Trevor Rabin, who seems to take much of the grunt for their change in direction, is not listed in any prog category. And for good reason.  He had no place in the prog years of YES. He wasn't there for TFTO, Relayer, Close To The Edge, etc. Regardless of what peoples opinions of 80's YES were, and still are, Trevor Rabin, as before mentioned, didn't have a place in 70's YES.  He is a more suitable "exception to the rule".
 
Phil Collins is not a Trevor Rabin.
 
The man was there for Foxtrot. He was there for Nursery Cryme. He was there for Selling England. He was there for The Lamb. Songs like "The Musical Box", "Watcher Of The Skies", "Supper's Ready" and "In The Cage" do not exist without the wrongful exception to the rule, Mr. Phil Collins. And that shouldn't be ignored.
 
Yea, Sussudio, You'll Be In My Heart, & Two Hearts are far from Prog. The same can be said for Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer, Shock The Monkey, and Big Time. If the album that holds "Games Without Frontiers" or "Intruder" can be recognized, then so should the album that holds "In The Air Tonight" or "The Roof Is Leaking".
 
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 15:56
^
Such a pity.  I personally think Max and the Admin team are way wrong on this one but I do enjoy fresh debates on the matter.
 
For Absent Friends
 
 
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:34
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I believe that M@x has specifically listed Phil Collins as the one and only pariah that should never set foot in PA as a solo artist, so even if the admins were somehow persuaded to add him, it isn't going to happen without persuading M@x as well. 

To clarify this. M@x didn't actually pass such an edict, but I understand why you recall it that way.Big smile
 
Several years ago, the (then) admin team and M@x agreed that the solo work of any artist whose band is listed in a prog category could be added to prog related (or a full prog category of course if justified). When we agree that policy, Collins was held up as one of the very rare examples of where his solo discography was generally recognised as being far removed from prog. He was therefore quoted as the sole exception to the policy. This was done in a sort of light-hearted way at the time, intended more than anything else to recognise the controversy such an addition would cause.
 
While I don't speak for the rest of the admin team, I don't think anything he has released since (has he released anything recently?) would change that view, so his chances of being admitted as prog related are, I would think, doubtful at best.
 
 
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:30
The problem is that time is lost to adding new bands because of the constant, non-stop debates over the prog-related artists that keep re-occurring over and over and over and over and over again.
Back to Top
Failcore View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:24
What's this huge obsession with adding PR artists??? There are plenty of full-fledged prog bands out there that are still not included on this site. I saw PR oughta be closed for new additions until we run out of real prog bands to add. Evil Smile
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:17
Or, if you like, The Let All Hell Break Loose categoryWink!

Oh, btw, Scott, I'm deep into reviewing that Sylvan album you like so muchLOL...
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:13
Or "Fine, You Win, They Are Here".
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:10
To save room on the home page that genre can be called Bands Added To Save Bandwith.
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:08
I think that a new genre needs to be added to PA titled  Bands Added Just To Stop The Endless Debates That Go On and On and On and On and Re-rear Their Ugly Heads Every Six Months or So.  This category would include Phil Collins, Boston, Toto, Judas Priest, Yngwie Malmsteen, Stratovarius, and every other band that we know who they are that fit this category.
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:05
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

I believe that M@x has specifically listed Phil Collins as the one and only pariah that should never set foot in PA as a solo artist, so even if the admins were somehow persuaded to add him, it isn't going to happen without persuading M@x as well. 



Well, I don't believe that M@x has done so out of hatred for Phil Collins, but rather because - as we say in Italian - he 'knows his chickens', and realizes the Admin Team would bear the brunt of the addition. I still have nightmares about the Iron Maiden addition, by the wayWink.
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66266
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 10:03

I believe that M@x has specifically listed Phil Collins as the one and only pariah that should never set foot in PA as a solo artist, so even if the admins were somehow persuaded to add him, it isn't going to happen without persuading M@x as well. 

Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:59
While I've never agreed about the hatred heaped upon Phil Collins (as I said before, people should avoid wasting energies on stuff like thatWink), I am not really sure adding him would be a good idea. For one, we should start considering the addition of other famous musicians that were once members of prog bands (one name for all: LemmyLOL), and then, personally, I don't find a whole lot of prog-relatedness in his music, even in Face Value (which I used to own on vinyl, so I'm not biased against it). However, I am well aware that prog-relatedness is very much a matter of point of view, and for some Face Value can be much more prog-related than, say, the album I have in my avatar.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, would be the violent reactions from part of the membership, which would probably result in abuse being heaped upon the Admins (who are in charge of PR) and the person responsible for the addition. Unfortunately, there are people here who just seem unable to remember that we are not dealing with politics or religion here, but with music - something that should unite us, not divide us. 
Back to Top
lazland View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13634
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 09:51
This one just runs and runsLOL

I love the debut, Face Value - an incredible emotional statement following the breakup of his first marriage. The second is a good pop album, and the rest I really don't care much for without actively disliking them.

I love Collins era Genesis, and I think the man is a great talent, decent bloke, who deserves our admiration rather than approbium.

However, solo stuff prog or prog related? If yes, then all will be rushing out to get the dictionary definitions revisedWink
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 04:24
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

...and again.....I hope that this argument though gets raised and raised again ad infinitum until Collin's is recognised here for Face Value alone.
 
One word.......Credibility
ClapClap


Want to take him into Crossover for an eval?  ;-)
Too contentious an issue....Wink and with due respect to previous evaluators, PC, was declined. An enormous figure for progressive music and I enjoy seeing new threads from new members regarding this issue as a current debate. Hard to ignore!

Edited by Chris S - February 19 2010 at 04:24
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Windhawk View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 04:11
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

...and again.....I hope that this argument though gets raised and raised again ad infinitum until Collin's is recognised here for Face Value alone.
 
One word.......Credibility
ClapClap


Want to take him into Crossover for an eval?  ;-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
Back to Top
someone_else View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24310
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 03:22

Phil's solo work, good or not, is a far remove from prog: even Peter Gabriel's solo work is far more progressive. In my humble opinion, his presence in at least three bands which are included here (Flaming Youth, Genesis and Brand X) does not justify an inclusion of his solo albums.

Back to Top
Easy Livin View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2010 at 02:48
Let's make sure this debate focuses on the music alone. No personal attacks on the artist please.
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2010 at 22:58
...and again.....I hope that this argument though gets raised and raised again ad infinitum until Collin's is recognised here for Face Value alone.
 
One word.......Credibility
ClapClap
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
J-Man View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2010 at 21:51
Here we go again....

Tongue

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
Back to Top
UndercoverBoy View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2010 at 21:33
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

 

"You're blaming me?!"


That is a very accurate picture.  And to respond to answer your question: NO!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.180 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.