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Topic ClosedCapital Punishment: For or Against?

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Poll Question: Do you stand by it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 05:01
Originally posted by Any Colour You Like Any Colour You Like wrote:

As much as I deteste many criminals for their acts, I cannot sanction the state to kill. Simple as that.
 
The same for me.
 
Cruel punishments create cruel criminals and as a consequence an unpleasant society for us all. Life in Denmark means 16 years to life ( the longest serving convict in modern time in Denmark sat in prison for 33 years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palle_S%C3%B8rensen)) and while I understand this seems like a very soft punishment to some people, we actually believe in giving criminals a second chance, which in turn also means that we donīt have many really unpleasant criminals in our country.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 04:10
Originally posted by valravennz valravennz wrote:

No - I think Capital Punishment tends to make martyrs of criminals and/or in many cases the condemed die an easy death compared to their victims if murder was the crime. I think the old adage of "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" is more appropriate ie: Life should be life with no parole. The punishment would then be translated into a life long suffering of the consequences of criminal actions. Death does not deem to be an appropriate punishment. A Life behind bars without freedom is. 


I agree more than 100% with what you've said.

I mean, I'd find it more frightening as (random example) a 30 year old murderer to have to spend every single day of my life until I die in a jail cell than have everything over rather painlessly and near instantly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 04:06
I'm against it, even though I know there are no easy answers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 04:01
No - I think Capital Punishment tends to make martyrs of criminals and/or in many cases the condemed die an easy death compared to their victims if murder was the crime. I think the old adage of "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" is more appropriate ie: Life should be life with no parole. The punishment would then be translated into a life long suffering of the consequences of criminal actions. Death does not deem to be an appropriate punishment. A Life behind bars without freedom is. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 03:56
Against. I don't think that any judge should have the right to decide about human life, not even of someone who is proved guilty of murder. Whether capital punishment is practised or not might be a major indicator for a nation's standard of civilization.

Edited by someone_else - November 27 2009 at 03:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 03:29
I disagree with death penalties, and even more  with appeal systems - in the USA people spend years on death row awaiting the result of pending appeal system judgements.
 
Life imprisonment should mean life - not just an 18 year sentence reduced to 4 for good behaviour ("well we'll let him out he hasn't killed / raped / sexually abused anyone while he's been here) .
 
Community Service orders of  250 - 500 hours  should be given out for lesser crimes such as Tax evasion, damaging / stealing property or fraud, but sex criminals or muderers should be given 35 / 50 year sentences - if they are off the street the public is safe from them...simple Stern Smile
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 02:22
Definitely not an easy one - there have been so many mis-carriages of justice in my living memory which pre abolition would have led to the death penalty; the Birmingham six spring to mind as an example - jailed in 1975 for the Birmingham pub bombings & released as innocent men in 1991; these men would have been hanged a decade earlier

Problem is, there are so many crimes you see perpetrated where guilt is 100% proven, part of my brain tends toward acceptance of the death penalty, though not publicly; that just smacks of revenge, not justice.

As I say, not an easy one

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2009 at 01:18
If you could arrive at a law enforcement system that was 100% efficient and was immune from corruption the capital punishment debate would be a no-brainer. As the requirements for the foregoing are about as likely as Attila the Hun receiving a posthumous nomination for a Nobel Peace Prize, you gotta vote 'No'
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 23:35
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I don't trust the State with taxing it citizens let alone killing them, although it is adept at both. Regardless of innocent people being executed or not, I don't believe it to be moral or within the realm of powers that should be given to the State. 
 
While your statement speaks to my libertarian sensibilities I still say, "hang em' all".  Theoretically it is still a jury of your peers that condemns you while the state acts as executioner.  The problem, as my cold icy heart, sees it is that: the modern legal system is extremely inefficient and expensive.  Throw out the chair, injections, gas, and whatever else there is out there; rope is still very cost effective.
On a side note: I never thought I'd seen the day Henry went soft.  What if I there were a death by bowling pin option?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 23:30
As a general rule, I am a bleeding heart liberal, and thus against the death penalty, for many of the reasons against the death penalty stated above.  However, I did have no issue with the recent execution of the D.C. sniper.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 23:23
I'm quite confused on this matter and don't have a clear answer. Though I tend to favor the abolition of death penalty, I sometimes think it is necessary. There are people who will just not change, ever. And whose contributions to society can only be chaos and death.

On this matter, I just don't know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 22:42
I don't trust the State with taxing it citizens let alone killing them, although it is adept at both. Regardless of innocent people being executed or not, I don't believe it to be moral or within the realm of powers that should be given to the State. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 22:41
Despite my being a hard line liberal, more or less down the line, I used to support the death penalty.
Now, well...I don't know.
I used to think of it as simply as, if you kill someone the only punishment worthy of taking a life is losing yours.

As I got older it became alot more complicated than that. From a lot of different angles.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 22:33
But Rob there's a difference between how easy it is to abuse something. There is only one President, but there are many wardens who could potentially get away with something if we start leaving loopholes. There's a reason we don't do forced labor anymore, but we still have a President.
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

I am against capital punishment, although a life sentence is as good as death anyway.

Unless you are the one paying for it.
Executing somebody costs more than life...
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 22:03
Originally posted by A Person A Person wrote:

I am against capital punishment, although a life sentence is as good as death anyway.


Unless you are the one paying for it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:53
I am against capital punishment, although a life sentence is as good as death anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:48
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

No, you can't give him his year back, but you can give him some money as an apology, and isn't being able to undo part of it far superior to not being able undo any of it?

The implementation of things is important because you have to take into account flawed/evil human beings. See: communism.
 
Banishing people seems like asking for trouble.


I'm not sure any amount of money could serve as a recompense for the missed years of my family's company were I wrongfully convicted.

In that light...I consider our soldiers...but at least they are noble.

And Henry, if you want to take into consideration the implementation of things because we must "take into account flawed/evil human beings," then we may as well erupt into utter anarchy.  Oh wait. 

Edit: Basically, we didn't throw out having a President because Presidents have let us down.  We have ideals, and state them, and deal with the inevitable bullsh*t as it comes up.


Edited by Epignosis - November 26 2009 at 21:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:39

No, you can't give him his year back, but you can give him some money as an apology, and isn't being able to undo part of it far superior to not being able undo any of it?

The implementation of things is important because you have to take into account flawed/evil human beings. See: communism.
 
Banishing people seems like asking for trouble.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:32
For any crime for which the death penalty could be given, perhaps complete banishment from society would be a good solution.
 
That is, if there was anyplace on this freaking world untouched by society....
 
I have conflicted views regarding personal vengeance. I suppose that translates to governmental vengeance too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2009 at 21:19
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Not so, Rob, because no justice system can ever be perfect, and you can undo a life sentence by letting someone out of jail. You can't undo death, and I can't tolerate a single innocent person being killed. In fact, I believe the Supreme Court said that innocent people have never been killed, but if one were that would be cause to rethink it. It is entirely possible I made that last sentence up.
 
Also, one could say that the problem with your scenario is not how society treats criminals, but how it treats the unemployed. ;-)
 
I would not have a problem with convicted criminals doing labor as long as their working conditions were the same as a normal person. The problem, I suppose, is that it wouldn't stay that way because there are people like Sheriff Joe around.


You cannot undo a life sentence if a man has spent a year in jail, Henry.  What do you propose the state does?  Give the man his year back?

And regarding laboring criminals, you are (again) disputing the implementation of things rather than how things should be.


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