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villastrangiato
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 30 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 20:57 |
Waters was essentially a one trick pony with arguably limited talent as a performer/musician. Gilmour on the other hand possessed the creativity, imagination, chops, and yes - the humility to build upon a successful career. He forged a distinctive sound from his Fender Strat that is instantly recognizable with a soaring, almost lyrical presentation earning him the title - "king of sustain". Gilmour was never considered a very flashy or gifted player in an Al Di Meola or Steve Howe kind of way. Despite this, his unquestioned ability to paint vivid soundscapes and make his instrument "sing" has consistently placed him on the short list of favorites for many prog rock fans over the years - no small feat. Gilmour's apparent "humility" or ability to successfully collaborate with other world class artists like Tony Levin has resulted in critically acclaimed recordings like those on Momentary Lapse of Reason. Water's efforts since Pink Floyd have paled by comparison. You just don't see Roger Waters showing up on favorite lists of fans like Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Jaco, or Levin. He simply doesn't belong in that kind of company. David Gilmour, however, clearly does.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: November 26 2009 at 13:32 |
moshkito wrote:
His latest album is sad, and disappointing ... it has completely stopped his "learning" ... and "experimenting" ... and I really think that he needs to dump all the musicians around him, and go grab one from Africa, one from Russia, one from Antarctica, one from Argentina ... and one from the Moon ... and then play with them ... and I guarantee you that he will have something great with it ... I kinda think that he needs to get out of that "rock'n'roll" fad thing ... which his music is "NOT" ... there was a lot more depth inside than the simple "jingles" and variations upon a scale that are used in pop hits ... |
While I agree that I wasn't impressed either by "On An Island", I must add that it does sound fantastic while live. Check "Live In Gdansk"
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Proggy Pogo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2009
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 198
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Posted: November 26 2009 at 13:19 |
Well, overall I would say I prefer David Gilmour as I like the soothing, mellow sound of his solo stuff, whereas Roger Waters' solo stuff is just a bit strange to me, and often too political. I would agree, of course, that the combined talents of both of them made the Floyd magic. But let's not forget the valuable contributions of Richard Wright, Nick Mason and of course SYD, without whom there'd be no Floyd.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 13:59 |
Atavachron wrote:
I think I once saw Roger Waters vs. Godzilla in a dark theater in 1976
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Ohhhh ... I would have paid to see that! ...
I think Roger would win that battle .. .Toho doesn't support those films much anymore!
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Trianium
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 03 2009
Location: Moaņa - Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 91
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 13:53 |
Amen. Richard Wright is the most underrated of the Pink Floyd members and one of the most underrated musicians ever.
Edited by Trianium - November 25 2009 at 13:53
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: November 25 2009 at 13:14 |
Hi,
... Just to set the record straight before we even start, I am fully aware that Pink Floyd would not be Pink Floyd without both David Gilmour and Roger Waters. I think everyone can agree to that. However, who do you like more? |
I'm going out on the limb and say that this is too simplistic a thought and is not even close as to the unity and work that "was" known as "Pink Floyd" ... and to be honest with you, I still think that the person who really "made" this band was Richard Wright ... not the guitar licks for rock'n'roll lovers or the lyrics for wannabeantisocialcommentaryrevolutionaries ... in his own quiet way, he added a feel and inner quietness and often "space" to the music that would otherwise make it sound just like every other radio song out there that many here love to talk about.
The cover of "Meddle" really says it all ... when you folded it out ... you have to listen ... unffortunately, the two things that everyone is listening to happen to be the lead guitar and the lyrics as the "most visible" ... but they are NOT the totality or the beauty of it all.
In general, Roger might be the one I have the greatest beef about ... because he has turned cynical and malkicious ... and I find it strange that he sits around now and says that "Atom Heart Mother" is garbage, and we can hear him doing songs with Ron Geesin with farts and poops on it! ... how soon he forgets what it was about the time ... that helped him learn how to use notes and staffs to interpret his feelings which are now so hard inbedded into his ideas and thoughts ... and his "experiments" no longer exist ... or if they do he won't share them with us. It's sort of like he has become a professor and now can not talk to you anymore ... because he is above us all ... and I really think that he has let his fame get to him and that far too many people have kissed his heiny ... that doesn't mean I don't love his music and work ... I love Amused to Death and Radio Kaos ... but sadly, Ca Ira is bloated with ideas ... and what he failed to see is that what it was missing was Bob Ezrin and a guitar! ... and it would have been far more interesting and probably sold more instead of making him look like an idiot since no classical music lover will ever get it or hear it, and folks in this board ... I'm not sure that anyone here has even given it a full listen ... it's not "prog" ...
David, in my book, is not as good a player as he thinks ... given the right setting and backing he can do some nice things with a guitar ... but I'm starting to thiink that he needs to get away from it all and find out what his instrument is all about again ... I really think that he has lost that spirit that you can see in "Live in Pompeii" that made him who he is ... the spirit that could invent sounds in the guitar and then learn to expand them ... and take us away with him. His latest album is sad, and disappointing ... it has completely stopped his "learning" ... and "experimenting" ... and I really think that he needs to dump all the musicians around him, and go grab one from Africa, one from Russia, one from Antarctica, one from Argentina ... and one from the Moon ... and then play with them ... and I guarantee you that he will have something great with it ... I kinda think that he needs to get out of that "rock'n'roll" fad thing ... which his music is "NOT" ... there was a lot more depth inside than the simple "jingles" and variations upon a scale that are used in pop hits ...
In my book, it's time for these two to take a break ... and either find out what is inside ... or please ... do yourselves a favor David and Roger ... retire ... enjoy the rest of your life ... that is not to say that you can not put together any more music ... but if all you can do is rehash what you did before, you will become nothing but a sad image of what you once were ... a really sad image ... ohh h ... is that Roger's new album's subject?
Edited by moshkito - November 25 2009 at 13:19
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Hanke666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 08 2009
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 129
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Posted: November 22 2009 at 17:51 |
Roger! I'd give a detailed motivation, but I really have to go to bed
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KingCrimson250
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 29 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 573
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Posted: November 22 2009 at 13:00 |
I saw a seminar given by Bob Ezrin the other day, and believe it or not someone asked him this question. He said both, but really all four.
And whoever said that Have a Cigar and Pigs are the same is pretty far off. Have a Cigar's verse is five bars of Em, one bar of C, one bar of D, then four of Em, whereas Pigs is one bar of Em, one of C, one of G, then two of Em. Sure there's some similarities, but if a i-VI makes two things sound identical then you can basically take all of music and label it as one song.
That being said, Pink Floyd was definitely overfond of the key of Em, I'll give you that.
(Actually, even just going through Animals, Pigs is completely in Em, Sheep is predominantly in Em, and Dogs is in Dm but it's played as Em tuned down a whole step so from a playing point of view is Em...)
Edited by KingCrimson250 - November 22 2009 at 13:03
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The Sleepwalker
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 15141
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Posted: November 22 2009 at 04:21 |
A Person wrote:
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
In what way? Everyone knows that "Animal Farm" is about the USSR, but what the heck about "Animals"? And really, I would almost wish for Waters to get cancer himself, so he'd know what he had written in "Dogs". SHAME ON YOU, RW! |
That's one very nasty comment. The line from Dogs "All alone, dying of cancer" isn't specificly about cancer, it just is a disease that causes many people to die and therefore can be used as a reference to death. The line tells that the businessmen dies without any family or friends, cancer is one of the ways.
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Then he still could have written 'dying of loneliness" or something like that. |
Loneliness doesn't derictly cause the person to die (indirectly it can, of course) while cancer does. The businessman dies because of a disease, that doesn't have to be offending. The line could also have been something like "dying of brain damage", "dying of aids" or "dying of pestilence", but it wouldn't be any better or worse. By telling the businessman dies from a disease it's made clear that he suffers while having absolutely nobody to support him. |
The reason why cancer makes sense is because it is a disease where your body atrophies, it could represent the businessman. Slowly eating away at his own life, only to realize too late.
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Didn't realize that one yet, but it does indeed make a lot of sense.
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 16:53 |
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
In what way? Everyone knows that "Animal Farm" is about the USSR, but what the heck about "Animals"? And really, I would almost wish for Waters to get cancer himself, so he'd know what he had written in "Dogs". SHAME ON YOU, RW! |
That's one very nasty comment. The line from Dogs "All alone, dying of cancer" isn't specificly about cancer, it just is a disease that causes many people to die and therefore can be used as a reference to death. The line tells that the businessmen dies without any family or friends, cancer is one of the ways.
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Then he still could have written 'dying of loneliness" or something like that. |
Loneliness doesn't derictly cause the person to die (indirectly it can, of course) while cancer does. The businessman dies because of a disease, that doesn't have to be offending. The line could also have been something like "dying of brain damage", "dying of aids" or "dying of pestilence", but it wouldn't be any better or worse. By telling the businessman dies from a disease it's made clear that he suffers while having absolutely nobody to support him. |
The reason why cancer makes sense is because it is a disease where your body atrophies, it could represent the businessman. Slowly eating away at his own life, only to realize too late.
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Any Colour You Like
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12294
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 15:45 |
jagp20 wrote:
Both |
Thread should have ended here.
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The Sleepwalker
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 15141
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 11:56 |
Anthony wrote:
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
In what way? Everyone knows that "Animal Farm" is about the USSR, but what the heck about "Animals"? And really, I would almost wish for Waters to get cancer himself, so he'd know what he had written in "Dogs". SHAME ON YOU, RW! |
That's one very nasty comment. The line from Dogs "All alone, dying of cancer" isn't specificly about cancer, it just is a disease that causes many people to die and therefore can be used as a reference to death. The line tells that the businessmen dies without any family or friends, cancer is one of the ways.
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Then he still could have written 'dying of loneliness" or something like that. |
Loneliness doesn't derictly cause the person to die (indirectly it can, of course) while cancer does. The businessman dies because of a disease, that doesn't have to be offending. The line could also have been something like "dying of brain damage", "dying of aids" or "dying of pestilence", but it wouldn't be any better or worse. By telling the businessman dies from a disease it's made clear that he suffers while having absolutely nobody to support him.
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Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 08:37 |
floydispink wrote:
Anthony wrote:
In what way? Everyone knows that "Animal Farm" is about the USSR, but what the heck about "Animals"? And really, I would almost wish for Waters to get cancer himself, so he'd know what he had written in "Dogs". SHAME ON YOU, RW! |
That's one very nasty comment. The line from Dogs "All alone, dying of cancer" isn't specificly about cancer, it just is a disease that causes many people to die and therefore can be used as a reference to death. The line tells that the businessmen dies without any family or friends, cancer is one of the ways.
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Then he still could have written 'dying of loneliness" or something like that.
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Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
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Green Shield Stamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 933
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 07:09 |
Roger Waters
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 06:54 |
Both are sublime contributors of Pink Floyd. Saw recently an interview with RW wishing things had gone differently without his own personal angst. Let's just say together all 4 of them were geniuses. Gilmour has managed to keep the Floyd trade mark going: Gdansk was very moving with Rick Wright. But if anyone has seen Water's live in recent years will agree he is so still PF it is scary. Great performer and perfectionist as usual. Love em both!!!!
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Courtesy Flush
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 04 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Points: 32
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 05:12 |
Guitar/Musicianship: Gilmour (by far)
Vocals: Gilmour
Lyrics: Waters
Concepts: Waters
Atmosphere: Both
I would go with Gilmour though just because I love his guitar style and vocals that much.
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The Sleepwalker
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 03 2009
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 15141
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 01:55 |
Anthony wrote:
In what way? Everyone knows that "Animal Farm" is about the USSR, but what the heck about "Animals"? And really, I would almost wish for Waters to get cancer himself, so he'd know what he had written in "Dogs". SHAME ON YOU, RW! |
That's one very nasty comment. The line from Dogs "All alone, dying of cancer" isn't specificly about cancer, it just is a disease that causes many people to die and therefore can be used as a reference to death. The line tells that the businessmen dies without any family or friends, cancer is one of the ways.
Also animals is NOT inspired by Animal Farm, though the band knows there are some similarities.
Edited by floydispink - November 21 2009 at 01:57
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65266
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 01:44 |
I think I once saw Roger Waters vs. Godzilla in a dark theater in 1976
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darksideof
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2007
Location: Newark N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2318
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 01:39 |
I CAN'T ARGUE ABOUT ANYTHING I LOVE BOTH MEN DEARLY ROGER FOR THE WALL AND ROGER FOR THE DARK. PERIOD....... JEEEEEEEEE .
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http://darksideofcollages.blogspot.com/
http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Darksideof-Collages/
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
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Posted: November 20 2009 at 22:57 |
Still, the best of Pink Floyd was Waters and Gilmour working together. And let's not forget Wright, and Nick Mason too.
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